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NL20 Cash for lolz.. Am I the absolute worst or one-outered????

simonnatursimonnatur
edited November 2013 in The Poker Clinic


 Villain very fishy, preflop had confidently narrowed his range down to any two....

(Not really too interested in preflop discussion, playing oop against villains who dont like to fold, don't mind calling sometimes to flop a disguised monster) 

 
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalancesimonnaturSmall blind £0.10£0.10£46.27DonttelmumBig blind £0.20£0.30£24.16 Your hole cards1010   lenny32Fold    landrov493Raise £0.40£0.70£11.01xCall £0.40£1.10£21.83simonnaturCall £0.30£1.40£45.97DonttelmumFold    Flop  3103   simonnaturCheck    landrov493Bet £0.60£2.00£10.41xCall £0.60£2.60£21.23simonnaturCall £0.60£3.20£45.37Turn  3   simonnaturCheck    landrov493Check    xBet £1.60£4.80£19.63simonnaturCall £1.60£6.40£43.77landrov493Call £1.60£8.00£8.81River  5   simonnaturCheck    landrov493Check    xAll-in £19.63£27.63£0.00simonnaturFold    landrov493Fold    xMuck    xWin £7.60 £7.60xReturn £19.63£0.40£27.2


#708307347 (22:30 08/11/2013)


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Comments

  • Phantom66Phantom66
    edited November 2013
    Well you have me really confused here...

    you say you don't mind calling oop to disguise a flopped monster? [would challenge that but you don't want to discuss]

    You get said flopped monster - you get action yet down 2 streets you check call and don't try to increase the pot then you fold to river shove putting your opponent on the case 3?

    If it were me I would be reraising flop with 2 customers and/or leading out on the turn. I would never fold that river with 2nd nut hand unless I was up against rocky rockmeister from big rock city.

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  • craigcu12craigcu12
    edited November 2013
    unless you can be guarantee that this player will never ever jam without the complete nuts this has got to be called.
    if the villain is so loose post flop then why not do a raise then if you see him go for a raise you can then have more chance of putting him on 3x but from the turn onwards theirs as much chance of him having the last 3 as their is of him having the last 10 or he even might have 55.

    think about what you said in the post i did with KK asking weather to fold
    you say to me i will never win MTT folding KK to a min raise.
    with cash you will never make profit if you are not going to call a jam just because their is a better hand

    edit: more chance of him having the last 10 than the last 3
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  • rancidrancid
    edited November 2013
    u have 2nd nuts - never fold
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  • LARSON7LARSON7
    edited November 2013
    Wow can't believe this hand.

    Fine calling the flop 2 keep in 2 customers, on the turn we definatly need to be raising to build the pot, get it in on river, or atleast get decent value from our hand.

    As played on the river this is a snap slam dunk call.
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  • The_Don90The_Don90
    edited November 2013
    WHATTTTTTTTTTTTTttttttt how many 3's can he have in range, he cant even have 33. 

    Snapy mcsnap snap snap. 


    Just do anything but fold. 
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  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr
    edited November 2013
    Intrigued to know what hand we put him on to lay this down. 3...what? A3?

    You've checked to him and he overjams the river all in. We should be high fiving the dealer, rubbing our crotch then clicking call.

    If they do somehow have the 3, and you lose the all in, then it is still the correct play. Have you posted this for image purposes or something?! ;)
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  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited November 2013
    Snap call
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  • Jac35Jac35
    edited November 2013
    Not sure all the comments have been fair Simon.
    It is a call. Yeah, they will show up with the quads every so often but you'll be good vast majority of times here.
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  • gazza127gazza127
    edited November 2013
    If I havent got all of my.money in by the river I would say ive played the hand wrong. Cannot believe you folded. Youre hand is so underrepped snd there are plenty of other hands he could be doing this with.

    Very nitty fold indeed!
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  • The_Don90The_Don90
    edited November 2013
    Its actually a strange one looking over the hand properly. 

    Because of pre i think its unlikely he has QQ+, i guess peop;e do hate jacks so i would grudingly put Jacks in his range. 

    Hes called flop and bet the turn so he does seem to have some love for his hand. Theres one T in the deck left. Sinces hes button i guess 34dd 35dd and A3 can be in range. 

    Im trying to think can he over value 22-99. (55 also would make some sense i guess). 


    I mean i never fold in game, but his range is actually pretty dam polorized. 

    Meh its a pretty sick spot tbh. 
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  • a00rocka00rock
    edited November 2013
    Even if your instinct was correct this is never a fold IMHO. It would be interesting to check it out if it was a TV table!
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  • The_Don90The_Don90
    edited November 2013
    In Response to Re: NL20 Cash for lolz.. Am I the absolute worst or one-outered????:
    Even if your instinct was correct this is never a fold IMHO. It would be interesting to check it out if it was a TV table!
    Posted by a00rock
    Does it sound stupid that i think theres no differance between having tens full and say jacks here. 

    He either has the 3, or hes overplaying something
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  • rancidrancid
    edited November 2013
    well there is one three and one ten in the deck - equal chance villian has either so your flipping it :)

    if you factor in the other houses and not to mention random bluffs then you can never fold


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  • F_IvanovicF_Ivanovic
    edited November 2013
    In Response to Re: NL20 Cash for lolz.. Am I the absolute worst or one-outered????:
    In Response to Re: NL20 Cash for lolz.. Am I the absolute worst or one-outered???? : Does it sound stupid that i think theres no differance between having tens full and say jacks here.  He either has the 3, or hes overplaying something
    Posted by The_Don90
    Sorry but I disagree. If he's "overplaying something" he could be "overplaying" QQ-AA so having tens full is better than JJ since we beat all his overpairs and ONLY lose to a 3. 
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  • IDONKCALLUIDONKCALLU
    edited November 2013
    this is a snap call opponent could do this with an overpair n think its good 
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  • THEROCK573THEROCK573
    edited November 2013
    must hate money
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  • Phantom66Phantom66
    edited November 2013
    Just for a bit of context - when you say 20nl for lolz - why? Is it above your usual bankroll - are you normally a tournament player?

    How long had you been at the table and how were you playing?

    Had you been to many showdowns and how had you fared?

    Had you called any river shoves previously or folded to them?

    All just trying to establish some background to give you some more constructive advice than...

    you should have called - you have the 2nd best possible hand and opponent, while they could have the 3, it is more likely they have something else, eg. the other T, 55 or any overpair to TT, or they are bluffing (quite possible if  they have seen you fold to big river bets before)
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  • The_Don90The_Don90
    edited November 2013
    In Response to Re: NL20 Cash for lolz.. Am I the absolute worst or one-outered????:
    In Response to Re: NL20 Cash for lolz.. Am I the absolute worst or one-outered???? : Sorry but I disagree. If he's "overplaying something" he could be "overplaying" QQ-AA so having tens full is better than JJ since we beat all his overpairs and ONLY lose to a 3. 
    Posted by F_Ivanovic
    How big a part of QQ-AA is part of his range. 


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  • simonnatursimonnatur
    edited November 2013
    Ok here goes.. Think had previously stacked villain, anyway had him pegged as v loose pre and bad.

    Preflop his range certainly includes suited, connected and one or more gapped 3's

    There's a certain disconnect going on, in that on the flop I'm praying he has one of these hands so i can stack him - on the turn i'm praying he doesn't.

    Gazz, commented he can shove plenty of worse hands, but I don't really agree... Think JJ+ very unlikely - not the type to slowplay, that leaves 3x, 55, 10x and maybe a few pure bluffs in my mind. (all of the hands are more or less equally unlikely but possible holdings)

    If I had quads in this hand v. two opponents who have shown pretty lukewarm interest in the pot on the turn (check calling) I would bet half pot or so on river and consider myself lucky to get called. Would a bad player just see quads and move the bet slider to the max?


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  • simonnatursimonnatur
    edited November 2013
    for context - just gone back and had dbl'd thru villain 18 mins previously with QQ on Q76hss £6.50 in pot , turn 2c - he called my £21 shove with A5ss.  He had opened 3x utg - I had flatted
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  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr
    edited November 2013
    Given your reads, I really don't see how you can put him on the lone 3. You think he's a bad player. A bad player will consider any FH here as the nuts probably and shove for value. He could even be trying to pinch it with some random airball as it's been a pretty passive hand thus far.

    FWIW, I think a good player will sometimes overbet jam quads here for maximum value knowing how hard it is for people to lay down full houses.

    This guy doesn't appear to be a good player. This is probably the easiest call you'll ever make. 

    Call call call!


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  • rancidrancid
    edited November 2013
    cmon your being silly - you have checked the effective nuts on river which is just lol bad and now your thinking about folding
    if your checking it's to get a shove/bet whatever

    i find this too much - yeah yeah a small % they gonna have a three


    overall we printing money


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  • BigHawk89BigHawk89
    edited November 2013
    Sure this is some kind of level

    you got disconnected or something. surely?
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