What would you do

fishtales

2 Questions.

1) Say you are in early position and you get dealt QQ and raise 4BB, the next person calls then UTG shoves and has you covered, do you fold or go all in..?

2) The second question say you are UTG with AK and have seen a 4BB raise and and a call from early position would you shove all in, knowing that many of your outs are probably held by the other 2 players and all you really have is A high, surely it would be a complete gamble or do most people not bother calculate this when making the move..?

Lambert180

1) UTG must have acted before you to still be in the pot and able to shove, what did they do? limp? Reads would be nice but without them, I sigh call it off if effective stacks are short, if we're deep, we can fold.

2) Again how can you have seen this happen before you do anything because you're UTG and act first, so I assume UTG as limped as above. We don't know many of outs are held by others, and there's a very good chance we don't NEED outs, for instance, we're not worried about our 'outs' when we get it in AK against AQ are we. Once someone has limped, it's easy someone could have raised with lots of hands AK crushes like AQ/AJ/AT/KQ/KJ.

Hate the limp/shove move personally but AK is only in bad shape against 2 hands and it's harder for someone to have AA/KK when we have 2 of them cards in our hand.

Did you just lose QQ v AK after UTG limp/shoved? lol.

THEROCK573

oryt mate, questions like this should go in the poker clinic really just so you no for next time.

question 1 - i presume you mean the button shoves as by the sound of it you are utg. utg is first to act. anyway                   to answer your question, it really does depend on so many things so there is no definate answer,                         how many big blinds do you have left? and how many does the guy that shoved the button have?

              how active has ur opponent been and what sort of image do you have at the table, he could be

              squeezing if you have been active.

question 2 -again all depends on stack size but i very rarely fold ak in an mtt as you nearly allways have outs                        as the chance of being up against AA or KK is unlikely although still of course possible. 3 betting                          is fine and flatting can fine if deep enough, id 3 AK nearly all the time though reagrdless of a raise.

  just a quick note because you seem to be getting mixed up with table position

  starting with first to act pre flop  -  UTG - HIJACK - CUT OFF - BUTTON - SMALL BLIND - BIG BLIND.

THEROCK573

lambet beat me to it, no dea why my message has come out like that either but you get the point

fishtales

Yep sorry got my own UTG position mixed with the button which is what I meant to put.

Fair enough I see your point lambert, I guess next time I will just fold the 3rd best starting hand. I just never bring my self to shove with AK coz if you miss you are basically playing with A high. Plus if you are the button why take away your position advantage by shoving, which you can then use to get you opponent off with after flop play, I don't know maybe some people are scared to play after the flop if they miss.

Still you live and learn I guess.

Lambert180

Sorry that changes everything. If you've opened, someone calls and it's the button that shoves, then I'd need to be mega deep or against a VERY tight player to even consider folding. I thought you meant 'someone limps, you raise, someone calls your raise, then the guy that limped now shoves... cos that is very fishy and generally a monster'.

Again from AK's point of view, depends how deep you are, if someone raises 4BB, someone calls, that means the pot including the BB and SB is now just shy of 10xBB so if I had AK and 25xBB, I'd be happy to shove now and add almost 50% to my stack. In late stages of MTTs sometimes the strength of AK lies in shoving knowing that you're putting max pressure on, you make people fold a lot, you get called by worse hands or flips a lot and you are very rarely ever gonna be in bad shape

fishtales

It was my first hand I was dealt after joining late rag ina £350 BH, so hand zero info on previous hands, so only had my starting stack and villain wasn't to much above that.

I was hoping it was a smaller pair to be honest as I know lots of people like to shove with any pair online, I guess in hindsight I could have folded until I had more info the players ranges.

This is why I enjoy this site, I can gain a great amount of insight from players that are obviously far better than me. Even though I have spent many hours reading all the best rated books I can find, theory of poker by David Salanksy (maybe incorrect spelling), the mental game of poker and the 3 books by Dan Harrington (Harrington on Holdem).

I just love the metal side of poker and really enjoy playing it.

hhyftrftdr

Never fold QQ pre in a Sky bounty hunter.

Ever.

DoubleAAA

In regards to your QQ hand, this is what you should be doing - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFRbZJXjWIA