checking for deception

craigcu12

here were two hands played in a very similar fashion on the same table. I didn't have any read on the villians of both hands but having seen what they did I regret how I played it.
it might seem like I am being results orientated but what I am really questioning is does trapping and checking for deception need very good reads on the opponents and is it more likely to cause a loss in the long run than a winnings?

plywood	Small blind		10.00	10.00	1670.00
JOXER1968	Big blind		20.00	30.00	1980.00
	Your hole cards	K K
x	Call		20.00	50.00	1980.00
craigcu12	Raise		80.00	130.00	1920.00
guess04	Fold
	Fold
plywood	Fold
JOXER1968	Call		60.00	190.00	1920.00
x	Call		60.00	250.00	1920.00
Flop
		K Q 9
JOXER1968	Check
x	Check
craigcu12	Bet		140.00	390.00	1780.00
JOXER1968	Fold
x	Call		140.00	530.00	1780.00
Turn
		Q
x	Check
craigcu12	Check
River
		J
x	Check
craigcu12	Bet		397.50	927.50	1382.50
x	Call		397.50	1325.00	1382.50
craigcu12	Show	K K
x	Muck	8 Q
craigcu12	Win	Full House, Kings and Queens	1325.00		2707.50

JOXER1968	Small blind		15.00	15.00	3865.00
	Big blind		30.00	45.00	1447.50
	Your hole cards	A K
craigcu12	Raise		90.00	135.00	3047.50
LFB	Fold
x	Call		90.00	225.00	1480.00
plywood	Call		90.00	315.00	1500.00
JOXER1968	Fold
	Fold
Flop
		7 2 K
craigcu12	Check
x	Check
plywood	Check
Turn
		4
craigcu12	Bet		180.00	495.00	2867.50
x	All-in		1480.00	1975.00	0.00
plywood	Fold
craigcu12	Call		1300.00	3275.00	1567.50
craigcu12	Show	A K
x	Show	7 4
River
		J
x	Win	Two Pairs, 7s and 4s	3275.00		3275.00

Lambert180

Hand 1 - I'm just carrying on betting on the turn, we wanna be stacking people with our big hands as much as possible and you have no chance of stacking them if you check the turn. Also it's unlikely they have a K as we know where 3 of them are, so he's either got a Q (never folding) or a straight, 2pr, pr + draw etc and most of these aren't folding.

hand 2 - Definitely wouldn't be giving up the betting lead here. Is your plan to just check/call 3 streets? Cos check/raising is too strong on such a dry board, and check/calling all the way just leaves open the door for them to checkback and we miss value. I'd expect we'd be betting this flop if we had AQ, so bet it with AK too.

77Chris91

Pretty much never checking in either of these spots for the reasons Lambert has already stated. 

F_Ivanovic

Craig, I think it would be best for now if you just learnt to never slow play/trap. There are times when it can be profitable but vs most player types the best line is to just keep betting. Hence if you don't know if it's a good situation to slow play, don't. Just bet!

LARSON7

Don't slow play, just take people to value town.

THEROCK573

hand 2 isnt so bad because the flops so dry and you get unlucky  but id still be betting everytime. 

hand 1 is perfect for 3 streets of value, cant think why we would ever check in this spot to be honest when theres so many combination of hands that call us down.

craigcu12

hand 1 I can see my mistake being that he had already did a limp preflop so that doesn't look much like a villain who would bluff and then having shown signs of fear on the turn if i now jammed the river even trip queens might fold.

hand 2 I didn't think enough about what I would do if I were holding AQ or 88-1010 as i would have cbet with them that's for sure.

THEROCK573

In Response to Re: checking for deception:

hand 1 I can see my mistake being that he had already did a limp preflop so that doesn't look much like a villain who would bluff and then having shown signs of fear on the turn if i now jammed the river even trip queens might fold. hand 2 I didn't think enough about what I would do if I were holding AQ or 88-1010 as i would have cbet with them that's for sure.
Posted by craigcu12

people on sky poker dont fold trip queens mate :-)

craigcu12

In Response to Re: checking for deception:

In Response to Re: checking for deception : people on sky poker dont fold trip queens mate :-)
Posted by THEROCK573

that's true but at the time i wasn't totally sure he had trips so although trips and 10x were both calling hands Jx or the last K would be folding if i did jam.

THEROCK573

In Response to Re: checking for deception:

In Response to Re: checking for deception : that's true but at the time i wasn't totally sure he had trips so although trips and 10x were both calling hands Jx or the last K would be folding if i did jam.
Posted by craigcu12

yeah i know you dont know for sure he has trip queens but you still have to set up smashing the river by betting the turn, its a standard 3 streets spot this mate.