You need to be logged in to your Sky Poker account above to post discussions and comments.

You might need to refresh your page afterwards.

Sky Poker forums will be temporarily unavailable from 11pm Wednesday July 25th.
Sky Poker Forums is upgrading its look! Stay tuned for the big reveal!

variance - a red herring.

Variance is accepted s part of poker. The accepted remedy is to multi-table and therefore even it out but I think this is wrong. Variance is about probability and luck and s Tkay used to say cards heve no memory so the probabilities are the same each time a hand is played. So we rely on the law of averages to even out the luck but here is no guarantee that it will. 
Assuming it does, playing more tables is not so relevant as playing more hands but the logic of that is you play every hand - and if everyone plays every hand you are going to lose 5 out of 6 ( on that same law of averages ) and everyone in the end should break even except , because of rake, they will ultimately all lose.

But should you accept variance as a concept, it is a risk you have to take on board and why try to minimse it  because risk is part of the game and it would be no fun wiithout it ( even the bad beat moaners hve to accept that ).
Again , if you multi-table and play, say £100 on each of ten tables you can assume that you may win on some  and lose on others ( though not necessarily ) and because the skill factor is reduced - you cannot put full concentration to ten tables ( 50 opponents ) - you are no more likely to make a profit than playing one table and you could still lose the lot. In fact , as above, the more tables you play above a certain limit the more likely you are to lose over all. 
In fact , if you put that £1ooo on one table and put your full concentratiion on it you have a better chance of a profit  ( or take a minimal hit ) because you can control when you leave a hand or the game and you can focus on your opponents better. 
Plus there are too many other factors that come into play . Variance can only apply to race situations and most hands are won and lost without it coming to a race. Strategy, psychology and gambling ( in other words the decisions you make ) are all as important , if not more so and all are easier to apply on one table.
I suppose what I am saying is - Don't multi-table to beat variance and kill the fun of the game  but if playing more tables increases your concentration and enjoyment that is fair enough but don't try to cure the incurable.
Thats it for my New Year ramble - and a happy one to all who waded their way through this waffle.
Now feel free to beat me up.

Comments

  • edited January 2014
    Happy New Year tiercel

    I got through it all, didn't think it was ramble. And anyway, I love rambling!
    I don't really agree with a lot of what you put. I do think you have some good points though.

    On this occasion, I don't think a beating up is required! :)
  • edited January 2014
    Nice post,very true in a lot of situations,Happy New Year!
  • edited January 2014
    In Response to variance - a red herring.:
    Variance is accepted s part of poker. The accepted remedy is to multi-table and therefore even it out but I think this is wrong. Variance is about probability and luck and s Tkay used to say cards heve no memory so the probabilities are the same each time a hand is played. So we rely on the law of averages to even out the luck but here is no guarantee that it will.  Assuming it does, playing more tables is not so relevant as playing more hands but the logic of that is you play every hand - and if everyone plays every hand you are going to lose 5 out of 6 ( on that same law of averages ) and everyone in the end should break even except , because of rake, they will ultimately all lose. But should you accept variance as a concept, it is a risk you have to take on board and why try to minimse it  because risk is part of the game and it would be no fun wiithout it ( even the bad beat moaners hve to accept that ). Again , if you multi-table and play, say £100 on each of ten tables you can assume that you may win on some  and lose on others ( though not necessarily ) and because the skill factor is reduced - you cannot put full concentration to ten tables ( 50 opponents ) - you are no more likely to make a profit than playing one table and you could still lose the lot. In fact , as above, the more tables you play above a certain limit the more likely you are to lose over all.  In fact , if you put that £1ooo on one table and put your full concentratiion on it you have a better chance of a profit  ( or take a minimal hit ) because you can control when you leave a hand or the game and you can focus on your opponents better.  Plus there are too many other factors that come into play . Variance can only apply to race situations and most hands are won and lost without it coming to a race. Strategy, psychology and gambling ( in other words the decisions you make ) are all as important , if not more so and all are easier to apply on one table. I suppose what I am saying is - Don't multi-table to beat variance and kill the fun of the game  but if playing more tables increases your concentration and enjoyment that is fair enough but don't try to cure the incurable. Thats it for my New Year ramble - and a happy one to all who waded their way through this waffle. Now feel free to beat me up.
    Posted by tiercel
    +1 to Jac.

    But think the bolded bit is the main reason why I disagree with a lot of the rest.

    There's so much variance, or 'luck' in poker, believing it only occurs in race situations is just wrong.

    Say I entered the main event tonight and got a table off mattbates, tommyd, yoyo, scotty, lolufold and jac.

    That would be insane luck wouldn't it?

    All the good players in the field and I get myself the softest table in sky main event history.

    +ve variance for sure, before a card is even dealt.

    Variance is everywhere, not only in poker, Could probably write a book longer than The Bible on variance, it's certainly not only in race situations.

    A lot of other good points though, nice post.
  • edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: variance - a red herring.:
    In Response to variance - a red herring. : +1 to Jac. But think the bolded bit is the main reason why I disagree with a lot of the rest. There's so much variance, or 'luck' in poker, believing it only occurs in race situations is just wrong. Say I entered the main event tonight and got a table off mattbates, tommyd, yoyo, scotty, lolufold and jac. That would be insane luck wouldn't it? All the good players in the field and I get myself the softest table in sky main event history. +ve variance for sure, before a card is even dealt. Variance is everywhere, not only in poker, Could probably write a book longer than The Bible on variance, it's certainly not only in race situations. A lot of other good points though, nice post.
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    7 handed table? ;)

    OP, nice post, well put together. As with others, don't agree with chunks of it, but a good read regardless. Makes a refreshing change in BBV!
  • edited January 2014

    haha, even my attempt to give Jac a disguised compliment turned out to be an un-intentional rubdown.

    Sorry Paul, no room @ the Inn, back into the group of 400+ other 'good' players you go ;)

  • edited January 2014
     To meet them  is not variance or bad luck but a challenge to your skills - lol.  Think of the glory when you survive.:-))
    The reason I say it only applies to races is because that is the one time when the result is out of your hands. You cannot escape. But thanks for the kind replies. It's quite difficult to write a post when the sun shines on the screen and youve got two tables going. One pops up and half of it ends up in the chat box baffling the world.

    esponse to Re: variance - a red herring.:
    In Response to variance - a red herring. : +1 to Jac. But think the bolded bit is the main reason why I disagree with a lot of the rest. There's so much variance, or 'luck' in poker, believing it only occurs in race situations is just wrong. Say I entered the main event tonight and got a table off mattbates, tommyd, yoyo, scotty, lolufold and jac. That would be insane luck wouldn't it? All the good players in the field and I get myself the softest table in sky main event history. +ve variance for sure, before a card is even dealt. Variance is everywhere, not only in poker, Could probably write a book longer than The Bible on variance, it's certainly not only in race situations. A lot of other good points though, nice post.
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
  • edited January 2014
    Not quite sure how you come to the conclusion that variance only applies in race situations. Variance will apply any time we do not have 100% equity in a hand. Obv the more equity we have lets say in all in situations then the less the variance. Also above poster makes a great point about the luck in seating in MTT's, if you're constanly sat to the right of a shark then this is indeed -EV.
  • edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: variance - a red herring.:
    Not quite sure how you come to the conclusion that variance only applies in race situations. Variance will apply any time we do not have 100% equity in a hand. Obv the more equity we have lets say in all in situations then the less the variance. Also above poster makes a great point about the luck in seating in MTT's, if you're constanly sat to the right of a shark then this is indeed -EV.
    Posted by mugsy78
    Agreed. Variance is only a fancy name for LUCK and if you have more than 0% then you have a chance.

  • edited January 2014
    Variance is in everything, the hand you got dealt, the hand your opponent got dealt, The times you flop a set the times you don't.

    It doesn't only apply to "race situations".

    Lets say you got dealt a pocket pair 3 times in your first 10 hands and flopped a set everytime, then you experienced positive variance. 

    If the villain flops a higher set on all these occasions then you experienced negative variance.

    Race situations refer to Expectaion - specifically "All In Expectation", this is a part of varience but not the only part.




  • edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: variance - a red herring.:
    Variance is in everything, the hand you got dealt, the hand your opponent got dealt, The times you flop a set the times you don't. It doesn't only apply to "race situations". Lets say you got dealt a pocket pair 3 times in your first 10 hands and flopped a set everytime, then you experienced positive variance.  If the villain flops a higher set on all these occasions then you experienced negative variance. Race situations refer to Expectaion - specifically "All In Expectation", this is a part of varience but not the only part.
    Posted by Kazuko
    Although i did base my post on all in EV you are exactly right.
  • edited January 2014
    There is nothing you do about the basics of variance/luck; it doesn't always even itself out in the end, so don't even give it the time of day.
  • edited January 2014
    Variance is a red herring and there is no such thing as luck. Everything is determined by probability both in the short and long term and probability over time will always balance out to expectation, or at least to assigned properties. Its a field of mathematics that has mathematicians arguing, never mind gamblers, but at the end of the day its present at all times in situations fixed by certain odds; a coin toss, roulette wheel, deck of cards, etc. Knowing the probabilities (odds) increases your chance of winning but it isnt determinate in the short term.
    In Response to Re: variance - a red herring.:
    There is nothing you do about the basics of variance/luck; it doesn't always even itself out in the end, so don't even give it the time of day.
    Posted by FCHD
Sign In or Register to comment.