AA v KK

unknown_username

Evening guys,

I play tournaments regular but this year I wanted to play more cash. Mainly so I didn't have the long winless runs and could build a steady bankroll. Anyway first night in the casino (Saturday night) this year and I'm playing cash (low limits).

I've been playing a short stack (intentionally to make myself play tighter) and been at the table roughly 2 hours still with my stack intact. I pick up KK in the BB. A guy who just got there raised to 4 BB from middle position. The button re-raised to 8 BB. I 4 bet to 16 BB (3/4 my stack) both my opponents have roughly double my chips in front of them. Guy from middle quickly folds and the button raises all in (putting me all in). The button has been there 1 hour and has been playing lots of pots but I haven't seen him make a showdown yet. So I'm left with what would in a tourney be an easy push. Of course it goes through my mind I hope he's not sat with bullets. I call.

Hes got AA and i lost my stack  to his full house AAAQQ.

So question to cash experts, should I have pushed or should I have folded.If I fold KK in similar circumstances will I end up a long term looser?

Thanks.

hhyftrftdr

Absolutely get it in. 

Edit. FWIW, I'd just jam pre instead of raising most of your stack. Former looks much weaker than the latter. And I'd sit with more money in front of me. Live play can be patchy at best, and awful at worst. So I'd want paying the maximum when I get the money in.

DoubleAAA

Get it in!

unknown_username

Thanks,

I was worried my `Tourney` head had taken over and cash players were going to tell me so. I can live with the bad beats as long as the decision is correct.

PokerNoon

I think if you're going to put 3/4 of your stack in, you might as well push. If you're know that you're going to hit the call button when they push on you, you might as well be the one to push first, then you have the extra fold equity.

There's no way anybody is folding this in a million years. Just one of those situations where you're unlucky and you lose your shirt without having done anything wrong.

I do think playing as a short stack is a mistake. Admittedly here you would have lost more money, but having a bigger stack gives you more options. In this example because of your stack size, your only option was really to push all in, because the 4-bet pretty much put you all in anyway. 

A bigger stack means you're not so pot committed. Plus it means that if you want to play tight (which you can still do with a massive stack), when you hit that monster hand you have the ability to take your opponent's entire stack.

Slipwater

Perfectly standard.

unknown_username

In Response to Re: AA v KK:

I think if you're going to put 3/4 of your stack in, you might as well push. If you're know that you're going to hit the call button when they push on you, you might as well be the one to push first, then you have the extra fold equity. There's no way anybody is folding this in a million years. Just one of those situations where you're unlucky and you lose your shirt without having done anything wrong. I do think playing as a short stack is a mistake. Admittedly here you would have lost more money, but having a bigger stack gives you more options. In this example because of your stack size, your only option was really to push all in, because the 4-bet pretty much put you all in anyway.  A bigger stack means you're not so pot committed. Plus it means that if you want to play tight (which you can still do with a massive stack), when you hit that monster hand you have the ability to take your opponent's entire stack.
Posted by PokerNoon

Thanks,

Thats good advice. I was talking to a friend who plays to a much better standard than me, he suggested the short stack approach (I also remember reading a book on short stacking- cant remember the title or author though, so it may have been rubbish!). It is effective in as much that there are fewer mistakes you can make, but it limits your options with suited connectors and small pairs I guess.

I`ll give a big stack a go next week.

Although, as you say, it saved me some cash last time out

golds95

Play a big stack 100% so much value dependimg on which casino you go to and what stakes but at my local is just amazing how much value you can get so want to play as many flops as possible as these weaker players will try and bluff you just to show off. But cant say im v experienced as ive only been playing cash for 2 months live.

unknown_username

In Response to Re: AA v KK:

Play a big stack 100% so much value dependimg on which casino you go to and what stakes but at my local is just amazing how much value you can get so want to play as many flops as possible as these weaker players will try and bluff you just to show off. But cant say im v experienced as ive only been playing cash for 2 months live.
Posted by golds95

I try play live more often. Gets me away from the wife, rids me of distractions (TV, phone etc) and I can see if a player is drunk, tilting etc. I also like the social side. Downside is the time it takes to get through as the physical deal obviously takes longer.

F_Ivanovic

then you have the extra fold equity.

When we are holding KK we don't want our opponent to fold But shoving pre is still best as it looks weaker than the size you made it. I doubt it makes much difference either way though.

As far as playing with a short stack goes - there are only certain times when it's a viable strategy. (eg. on a table full of solid/aggressive regs having a short stack will give you a big advantage) But if there's bad players at the table you want to have them covered.

bbMike

If you raise to 3/4 of your stack and he tells you honestly he has AA when he puts you all in, it's still a call.

There is so much invested in the hand, from what I understand there are 2 players in, you have roughly 5.5BB left and there is 4+16+16+5.5+0.5=42BB in the pot on the table. This then becomes a snap call with any pocket pair. Without completing the maths it's probably a trivial call with a lot of non-paired cards too!

Just put the lot in, never raise so much of your stack and then fold. KK can beat AA.

IDONKCALLU

std if u ask me  

only way u can get of kk  imo    if ya about 200 bb deep and a guy limps utg   and u raise and he reraises big tell that