General Discussion regarding Fairness (Mod Edit Title and guidelines at start of post)

hahagutted

MOD EDIT - Thread clearly encourages discussion but please note forum guidelines at top of page specifically:
Comments that can be construed to question Sky Poker's integrity, game fairness, security or random number generation.

Theres loads of different views on poker being rigged or (not random) i always feel this is correct even if somtimes its in my favour,,some days i will get it in good every hand and still loose other days (not very often) i just cant loose no matter how poorly i play i just get lucky. ppl say this is because you play so many hands so it seem like this but im not to sure anyone feel the same?

GELDY

jac35
you have retired
remember

LARSON7

Hey Gutted!

I would disagree. When you think about it, why would it be rigged for you or against you?

The cards are produced by a random number generator, which has no thought process, it would not know player A from player B, as the random in the title suggests.

You have periods where you run good or bad, it's just variance.

For people that say it is "rigged" it would seem to be a minority view point, and especially popular amongst "losing" players. Players that overall show a loss from when they play poker.

It's almost a way of them justifying to themselves why they lose, it's not their fault, they are just unlucky because it is "fixed" against them.

hahagutted

In Response to Re: RIGGED:

Hey Gutted! I would disagree. When you think about it, why would it be rigged for you or against you? The cards are produced by a random number generator, which has no thought process, it would not know player A from player B, as the random in the title suggests. You have periods where you run good or bad, it's just variance. For people that say it is "rigged" it would seem to be a minority view point, and especially popular amongst "losing" players. Players that overall show a loss from when they play poker. It's almost a way of them justifying to themselves why they lose, it's not their fault, they are just unlucky because it is "fixed" against them.
Posted by LARSON7

yea sure i would say so far i was neither winning nor loosing sort of in the middle, there would be a reason that sites rigg the poker that would be to make new players win, so they are always interested then make them loose so they depsit, this is not my opinion just somthing ive heard, i dont think its rigged personaly just like you said when your having a bad day you convince your self it is lol

iatehorse

just variance im afraid, both positive and negative variance is effected by every decision you make at the tables and away. 
people who say that a site has a rigged RNG are being effected by negative variance and running bad and then start to make -ev plays pre flop and post due to the negative mind-set that the negative variance has created(otherwise known as tilt),
 and then because they are so tilted they normally tell anyone that will listen that that site is rigged and any site they have ran good on isn't  
also another factor you have to take into account is some sites have a better standard of player (i.e. good reg's ) than other sites, so they may appear to run better at a site where a specific player pool is weaker and conversely run/play worse where that player pool is at  a higher standard.
also my last point is im sure the RNG is checked at regular intervals by some independent body to make sure the RNG isn't rigged,
I am also pretty  sure I read somewhere that if you were to press call or raise button even a millisecond later than planned that a different set of flopped cards would appear than the previous millisecond  
regards
iah

aussie09

i guess you are unaware of the secret codes.  typing in a bet size with two decimal places always secures the river card win.  for example, bet 1,000.75 chips and you will turn your bluff into a backdoor straight.  if looking for a flush, the two decimal points you need to type are 1,000.88.  i have also discovered that by pressing "fold" pre-flop always means that you miss out on a royal flush.

but don't tell everyone.

 

 

hahagutted

In Response to Re: RIGGED:

just variance im afraid, both positive and negative variance is effected by every decision you make at the tables and away.  people who say that a site has a rigged RNG are being effected by negative variance and running bad and then start to make -ev plays pre flop and post due to the negative mind-set that the negative variance has created(otherwise known as tilt),  and then because they are so tilted they normally tell anyone that will listen that that site is rigged and any site they have ran good on isn't   also another factor you have to take into account is some sites have a better standard of player (i.e. good reg's ) than other sites, so they may appear to run better at a site where a specific player pool is weaker and conversely run/play worse where that player pool is at  a higher standard. also my last point is im sure the RNG is checked at regular intervals by some independent body to make sure the RNG isn't rigged, I am also pretty  sure I read somewhere that if you were to press call or raise button even a millisecond later than planned that a different set of flopped cards would appear than the previous millisecond   regards iah
Posted by iatehorse

thanks for the reply, i heard this too, some sites have a system were the deck is shuffled once befor the hand and others have a system were the deck is shuffled before the flop turn and river. and do you think this still makes it as random or as fair as live play?

hahagutted

In Response to Re: RIGGED:

i guess you are unaware of the secret codes.  typing in a bet size with two decimal paces always secures the river card win.  for example, bet 1,000.75 chips and you will turn your bluff into a backdoor straight.  if looking for a flush, the two decimal points you need to type are 1,000.88.  i also discovered that typing in a special three decimal place bet allows you to change your hand into a royal flush. but don't tell everyone.    
Posted by aussie09

lol

iatehorse

In Response to Re: RIGGED:

In Response to Re: RIGGED : thanks for the reply, i heard this too, some sites have a system were the deck is shuffled once befor the hand and others have a system were the deck is shuffled before the flop turn and river. and do you think this still makes it as random or as fair as live play?
Posted by hahagutted

TBH I would say live play is more likely to be rigged due to the human factor, i.e dealers being payed off and such. Also it was reported recently well like 2 years ago that a well respected live player had someone behind his HU opponent and was getting told his opponent's cards by hand signals and that was in a major final (they were caught and subquently disqualified )
I can only think of one poker site that has actively been caught cheating and that was the ex c.e.o who had a backdoor programme written in to the software so he could see other people's whole cards (although im sure you know about this and which site it was) and he was soon caught out by the clever regs at that site.
You can see both of the above on youtube

regards
iah

hahagutted

In Response to Re: RIGGED:

In Response to Re: RIGGED : TBH I would say live play is more likely to be rigged due to the human factor, i.e dealers being payed off and such. Also it was reported recently well like 2 years ago that a well respected live player had someone behind his HU opponent and was getting told his opponent's cards by hand signals and that was in a major final (they were caught and subquently disqualified ) I can only think of one poker site that has actively been caught cheating and that was the ex c.e.o who had a backdoor programme written in to the software so he could see other people's whole cards (although im sure you know about this and which site it was) and he was soon caught out by the clever regs at that site. You can see both of the above on youtube regards iah
Posted by iatehorse

yes i heard of this but cant remember what site but does not make mutch difference, i think your correct in what you say and thanks for your time 

lewis 

hahagutted

GaryQQQ

In Response to Re: RIGGED:

im sure the RNG is checked at regular intervals by some independent body to make sure the RNG isn't rigged,
Posted by iatehorse

Not as often as you might think; it was last tested in September 2009.

https://support.skypoker.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/281

However it's still implausible that shuffles are rigged in my opinion. Who would do it? Why would they do it? 

Is there a secret army of workers hidden away somewhere monitoring all the tables, deciding who they want to win and who they want to lose, then picking cards accordingly?

alex1229

You might be on to somthing - You realise Sky employ one person, this one person monitors all tables at once, he hand picks select individuals when theyre all in in a hand and ensure the river card is a bad card for them

It makes me sick to think about it

hahagutted

In Response to Re: General Discussion regarding Fairness (Mod Edit Title and guidelines at start of post):

You might be on to somthing - You realise Sky employ one person, this one person monitors all tables at once, he hand picks select individuals when theyre all in in a hand and ensure the river card is a bad card for them It makes me sick to think about it
Posted by alex1229

 ive heard so many different things, there is a delay on the river card i have noticed but not saying that what your saying is correct neither incorrect i gues people will never acctually know how it works but if your a winner who cares

hahagutted

alex1229

In Response to Re: General Discussion regarding Fairness (Mod Edit Title and guidelines at start of post):

In Response to Re: General Discussion regarding Fairness (Mod Edit Title and guidelines at start of post) :  ive heard so many different things, there is a delay on the river card i have noticed but not saying that what your saying is correct neither incorrect i gues people will never acctually know how it works but if your a winner who cares hahagutted
Posted by hahagutted

Some companies employ one human ive heard others who actually employ specifically trained dogs !! and they are taught what card to deal on the river depending on what the player who they want to lose has, can you beleive that??

hahagutted

In Response to Re: General Discussion regarding Fairness (Mod Edit Title and guidelines at start of post):

In Response to Re: General Discussion regarding Fairness (Mod Edit Title and guidelines at start of post) : Some companies employ one human ive heard others who actually employ specifically trained dogs !! and they are taught what card to deal on the river depending on what the player who they want to lose has, can you beleive that??
Posted by alex1229

why dont you just not comment i your going to be like a little child and go loose some more money?

FlyingDagg

In Response to Re: General Discussion regarding Fairness (Mod Edit Title and guidelines at start of post):

In Response to Re: General Discussion regarding Fairness (Mod Edit Title and guidelines at start of post) :  ive heard so many different things, there is a delay on the river card i have noticed but not saying that what your saying is correct neither incorrect i gues people will never acctually know how it works but if your a winner who cares hahagutted
Posted by hahagutted

BIB yes there is a delay it's called lag and happens on the flop turn and river.

Fixed or not? 1 not fixed  collect rake and be allowed to trade
                   2 fixed collect same rake and risk being shut down

I know which one I'm going for.

hahagutted

In Response to Re: General Discussion regarding Fairness (Mod Edit Title and guidelines at start of post):

In Response to Re: General Discussion regarding Fairness (Mod Edit Title and guidelines at start of post) : BIB yes there is a delay it's called lag and happens on the flop turn and river. Fixed or not? 1 not fixed  collect rake and be allowed to trade                    2 fixed collect same rake and risk being shut down I know which one I'm going for.
Posted by FlyingDagg

yea this makes sense to me too i dont beleive its rigged just a bit suspisious (hence the post) but there is always arguments in each favour just like a poker site has been shut down before in the past for cheating 

YOYOY

In Response to Re: General Discussion regarding Fairness (Mod Edit Title and guidelines at start of post):

In Response to Re: General Discussion regarding Fairness (Mod Edit Title and guidelines at start of post) : yea this makes sense to me too i dont beleive its rigged just a bit suspisious (hence the post) but there is always arguments in each favour just like a poker site has been shut down before in the past for cheating 
Posted by hahagutted

What you should also think about is the sheer volume of hands/flops/turns and rivers dealt every minute. I was just railing a cash table after reading your op and in 1 hand the actual number of hands dealt over the entire site jumped by roughly 600,and thats during a relatively quiet period.

As someone has already said; why take the risk when they make so much anyway?

hhyftrftdr

What do we have here?

NoseyBonk

In Response to Re: General Discussion regarding Fairness (Mod Edit Title and guidelines at start of post):

You might be on to somthing - You realise Sky employ one person, this one person monitors all tables at once, he hand picks select individuals when theyre all in in a hand and ensure the river card is a bad card for them It makes me sick to think about it
Posted by alex1229

Ahh, Hand-picker Harry. Come to think of it I've not heard his name mentioned on the shows for ages...

unknown_username

In Response to Re: RIGGED:

In Response to Re: RIGGED : yea sure i would say so far i was neither winning nor loosing sort of in the middle, there would be a reason that sites rigg the poker that would be to make new players win, so they are always interested then make them loose so they depsit, this is not my opinion just somthing ive heard, i dont think its rigged personaly just like you said when your having a bad day you convince your self it is lol
Posted by hahagutted

hi haha erm,you gotta unconvice your self,it wouldn,t happen here imagine what would happen to the sky brand if it came out they were rigging it for certain people to lose for a bit of rake

think about it..

somer

In Response to Re: RIGGED:

just variance im afraid, both positive and negative variance is effected by every decision you make at the tables and away.  people who say that a site has a rigged RNG are being effected by negative variance and running bad and then start to make -ev plays pre flop and post due to the negative mind-set that the negative variance has created(otherwise known as tilt),  and then because they are so tilted they normally tell anyone that will listen that that site is rigged and any site they have ran good on isn't   also another factor you have to take into account is some sites have a better standard of player (i.e. good reg's ) than other sites, so they may appear to run better at a site where a specific player pool is weaker and conversely run/play worse where that player pool is at  a higher standard. also my last point is im sure the RNG is checked at regular intervals by some independent body to make sure the RNG isn't rigged, I am also pretty  sure I read somewhere that if you were to press call or raise button even a millisecond later than planned that a different set of flopped cards would appear than the previous millisecond   regards iah
Posted by iatehorse

“Also my last point is im sure the RNG is checked at regular intervals”

Thank goodness - at last we have an informed view.

Given you are sure the RNG is checked  - could you confirm when the last inspection took place?