What would you raise to here on the flop?

LARSON7

Any shout for calling here? LARSON7	Small blind		£0.10	£0.10	£36.64
x	Big blind		£0.20	£0.30	£20.00
	Your hole cards	A A
LARSON7	Raise		£0.30	£0.60	£36.34
x	Call		£0.20	£0.80	£19.80
Flop
		4 2 8
x	Bet		£0.60	£1.40	£19.20
LARSON7	?

gazza127

Im raising against unknown.

There are so many hands we can get value from.  Of course we could be value owning ourselves if we bet turn and river with the worst of it but imo raising here />>>> calling.  Charge overpairs and draws.... even top pair that led out.  IMO thats the vast majority of villains range here and we can raise for valueeeeeee.

If we get reraised on flop... thats when things get more complicated, and if we meet a raise on another street.  But we can reassess at each stage.

Gotta assume we've got the best of it at the minute and i'd be raising circa £2.

cenachav

Depends on my reads on oppo.  I'm probably raising to about £2 too and would only call to keep in bluffs if oppo has bet/folded on the flop a significant time before

LARSON7

Never said in initial post, opponent is quite tight, pre anyway.

Definatly a raise against this opponent.

1st player I played donk bet everything, and folded to a raise, so would have been a call.

Don't even know why I posted this, thanks Cena and GAz

Slipwater

I'd probably call here, because oftentimes donk leads fold to a hefty raise (which it would be). They probably won't have enough on this flop to call.

gazza127

In Response to Re: What would you raise to here on the flop?:

I'd probably call here, because oftentimes donk leads fold to a hefty raise (which it would be). They probably won't have enough on this flop to call.
Posted by Slipwater

Definitely not the way to play it IMO.  We have the best hand so don't want to try and inflate the pot?

Makes very little sense.

Slipwater

In Response to Re: What would you raise to here on the flop?:

In Response to Re: What would you raise to here on the flop? : Definitely not the way to play it IMO.  We have the best hand so don't want to try and inflate the pot? Makes very little sense.
Posted by gazza127

In my experience at these levels a donk lead will often fold to a raise on a pretty dry flop like that, and you're not inflating anything if he folds most of the time. If you call, you're keeping him there for a little longer.

Having said that, Larson made a bit of a mess of the initial raise anyways!

Just a suggestion.

77Chris91

Raising 100% of the time here.

Slipwater

In Response to Re: What would you raise to here on the flop?:

Raising 100% of the time here.
Posted by 77Chris91

I have seen myself do both: raise and call. Entirely player relevant.

gazza127

In Response to Re: What would you raise to here on the flop?:

In Response to Re: What would you raise to here on the flop? : In my experience at these levels a donk lead will often fold to a raise on a pretty dry flop like that, and you're not inflating anything if he folds most of the time. If you call, you're keeping him there for a little longer. Having said that, Larson made a bit of a mess of the initial raise anyways! Just a suggestion.
Posted by Slipwater

Im not sure this constitutes a dryyyy flop.  Yes its not like KsQsJs  but its connected and flushing.  There are a heap of worse hands that will call a raise.

We shouldn't be afraid of losing our customer.

77Chris91

In Response to Re: What would you raise to here on the flop?:

In Response to Re: What would you raise to here on the flop? : I have seen myself do both: raise and call. Entirely player relevant.
Posted by Slipwater

Obvs not gonna raise if we know the guy is just gonna barrel 3 streets every time. I'm assuming that as Larson didn't post any reads, he doesn't have any.

So... raising here 100% against an unknown

IDONKCALLU

+1 to gazza here   raise for value innit id go £2.40 

dnt see why calling is gd u want opponent to catch up  make him pay for draws etc

alex1229

Folding 90% of the time, hes clearly got a set 

LARSON7

In Response to Re: What would you raise to here on the flop?:

Folding 90% of the time, hes clearly got a set 
Posted by alex1229

That would be a nitty fold:P

BorinLoner

Hate being 3-bet on this board. We're only getting it in against better hands or draws with good equity...

I'd rather call and give him a chance to pay us more on later streets with one pair hands or barrel off with missed draws.

Highly depends what we think he does with his one-pair hands on this board. If he can call a raise and call multiple barrels then we can raise. Otherwise we only get multiple streets from hands that have good equity against us when we raise. Most of the time that will be the case.

Being in position makes this an easy flat in my opinion. We don't need to fear losing a street of value from weaker hands because we act second.

BorinLoner

We also have the Ah...

It means we can give villain a little less credit for flush draws. Not much, mind, as it's heads-up. Still, it makes it a little more likely that we're facing a made hand than a draw.

LARSON7

I called here.

I really disliked it as soon as I clicked "call".

It's a tough one, raise and lose your customer. Slow play it and let him barell.

I thought i'd let him barrel.

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: What would you raise to here on the flop?:

I called here. I really disliked it as soon as I clicked "call". It's a tough one, raise and lose your customer. Slow play it and let him barell. I thought i'd let him barrel.
Posted by LARSON7

?

I assume they folded, but when we raise we don't know they are going to fold. Too many hands and draws will pay to see more on this board.

LARSON7

I called. New glasses for HH

hhyftrftdr

Why does raising lose your customer? Point I was getting at.

benc

Any reads on/notes on previous lead outs? i am raising here against the majority of opponents unless he is donking with complete air which if he is solid/tight? is unlikely, we are likely to have the best hand and be up against top pair/draws so often that we want to get value expecting our hand is good against his range a very large percentage of the time, we have position an overpair b/d nut flush draw we want to start building a pot, if the board was the same but no f/d i would like a call alot more but think there is way too many hands in his calling range pre that are never folding to a raise on the flop we can get value from.

LARSON7

Hey Ben nice post!

No reads or notes on lead outs. He has just opened up a bit, before was folding every bb.

Until about 3 hands before this one, he had called every sb raise.

From his tight pre flop play, would imagine he's not doing this with air.

Definatly most times here we have the best hand, and has donk led with top pair, middle pair. Could donk lead a set.

Definatly need to start building a pot. If i'm re-raised i can re assess. Think this should be a standard raise spot, to build the pot get more value.

If there was no FD, why would you be more likely to call behind. I think the flush, or flush draw, is only a small part of his range here.