Mini roller is this standard?

IDONKCALLU

Looks like a set of eights.

IDONKCALLU

Not keeen on the min raise click back on the flop but cnt just fold  and when i hit 2 pair i have to go with it i spose heavenSmall blind 20.0020.004565.00JimDaManBig blind 40.0060.004960.00 Your hole cardsQA   JammyBeeRaise 80.00140.005040.00CONGER60Fold    dallen11Call 80.00220.005335.00IDONKCALLURaise 320.00540.004620.00heavenFold    JimDaManFold    JammyBeeCall 240.00780.004800.00dallen11Fold    Flop  5A8   JammyBeeCheck    IDONKCALLUBet 390.001170.004230.00JammyBeeRaise 780.001950.004020.00IDONKCALLUCall 390.002340.003840.00Turn  Q   JammyBeeAll-in 4020.006360.000.0

F_Ivanovic

yup

hhyftrftdr

If you feel you have to go with it then why are you posting the HH?

craigcu12

min raising is even more likely to mean yo beat.
what he is probably thinking is with their being an A on the flop and as you did a 3bet pre an A or premium pair is very likely to be in your range so he will use this as a chance to try and rep a raggy ace and then when a queen comes on the turn that is when these players take a chance to try getting value as not only is their 1 premium card but 2.

IDONKCALLU

in game i just cnt see many players folding not just say yeah id fold coz u knew im beat if u dnt know the result forget about the result of the hand would u call the min raise

THEROCK573

it does look like a set of 5,s or 8s but rightly or wrongly id have hard job folding here if im honest.

Lambert180

Imo flop range readless is pretty clearly, A5, A8, 55, 88 and maybe AK, really standard fold. Turn is harder cos you went ahead of 2pr hands and AK so its prob a call but you got in this mess thanks to a bad flop call imo

77Chris91

Tis standard, would expect to be good here quite a lot of the time by the turn as well.

Slipwater

In Response to Re: Mini roller is this standard?:

Tis standard, would expect to be good here quite a lot of the time by the turn as well.
Posted by 77Chris91

I actually don't think we're good here. If it isn't a set of eights, it's certainly a bloody good representation.

77Chris91

In Response to Re: Mini roller is this standard?:

In Response to Re: Mini roller is this standard? : I actually don't think we're good here. If it isn't a set of eights, it's certainly a bloody good representation.
Posted by Slipwater

Sets don't usually jam like 150% pot on turn... Gonna see A5 or A8 way more often imo. Obvs it's a set this time otherwise the hand wouldn't have been posted.

IDONKCALLU

+ 1 to chris strange why they overbet jam with a set

Lambert180

All semi irrelevant imo. We prob do have to go with it on the turn but imo we should never even reach the turn. Passive limp caller is now desperate to get chips in, stonewall fold on flop

TeddyBloat

Are we folding to every xraise on a dry ace high flop?

We have air so often here, if we fold hands as strong as AQ what are we contunuing with?

BorinLoner

Not a limp-caller, but a raise-caller.

Does villain check-click-back AJ on this flop vs a pre-flop 3-better? Probably not. How often is a click-back a bluff or semi-bluff? Rarely.

You've got to provide us with some idea of your image to explain flatting the min-raise. On the turn, I wouldn't fold. Don't think many of us would. Doubt that we should. I'd agree that we're going to see AK and weaker two-pairs too often to make folding the right play on the turn. On the flop, we've got to ask what range flats a 3-bet OOP pre-flop, then check-clicks-back this flop.

We're beat on the flop.

Lambert180

In Response to Re: Mini roller is this standard?:

Are we folding to every xraise on a dry ace high flop? We have air so often here, if we fold hands as strong as AQ what are we contunuing with?
Posted by TeddyBloat

Depends but people need to stop being scared of being exploitable V people who will probably never exploit us. He's never thinking 'ooo this will look strong so ill do it with air'.

I'd expect him to raise bigger with a draw but there isn't even a FD, would literally be just 67. This is a value raise andwe can't beat any value hands that take this line

bolly580

why call flop to fold this turn?

F_Ivanovic

Against a super tight range of AK, A5, A8, 55 and 88 we have 17.7% equity. We are getting good enough odds on the flop to call even if we assume we are behind v often. Add in the odd bluff/weird raise with a worse value hand and folding just to the flop raise seems a mistake. Probably not a huge one but by the same token it can never be a big mistake to call the flop raise.

Also I seriously doubt anyone here actually folds to the flop raise w/o having a dead on read on opponent. As is IDCU gave no such read...

seppe

In Response to Re: Mini roller is this standard?:

All semi irrelevant imo. We prob do have to go with it on the turn but imo we should never even reach the turn. Passive limp caller is now desperate to get chips in, stonewall fold on flop
Posted by Lambert180

really? are we getting that nitty we can fold out all top pairs & narrow their range to sets on the flop?

seppe

In Response to Re: Mini roller is this standard?:

Against a super tight range of AK, A5, A8, 55 and 88 we have 17.7% equity. We are getting good enough odds on the flop to call even if we assume we are behind v often. Add in the odd bluff/weird raise with a worse value hand and folding just to the flop raise seems a mistake. Probably not a huge one but by the same token it can never be a big mistake to call the flop raise. Also I seriously doubt anyone here actually folds to the flop raise w/o having a dead on read on opponent. As is IDCU gave no such read...
Posted by F_Ivanovic

hel never give a read, why because hes idcu lol

Lambert180

In Response to Re: Mini roller is this standard?:

In Response to Re: Mini roller is this standard? : really? are we getting that nitty we can fold out all top pairs & narrow their range to sets on the flop?
Posted by seppe

Doesn't have to be a set but imo the clickback on the flop is 100% fo value. When we decide that's the case, what value hand do we beat? AJ? Doubtful. 

I'd go the other way and say we need reads to say they're gonna take super nutted lines without the nuts and we don't have that

hhyftrftdr

Classic clickback with the effective nuts. Difficult to fold in play and that turn is the kiss of death but yeah when they click it back it's pretty much playing their set face up.

shakinaces

This is only the mini-roller though right, so it opens up the chance for there to be more 'strange' plays than if it was a £55+ buy in.

I've encountered this sort of play in lower level games which has included numerous hands that AQ (by the turn) are beating - A8, A5, 58, 67 - maybe even some total bluffs if you are against a gambler. 

I suppose all but one of these should technically make it a fold on the flop (alongside the more standard 88 or 55) as you are drawing pretty thin, but having called to see the turn there are now enough hands you beat to justify calling the turn IMO.  In fact I think I'd lean even more towards a call because a lot of 55/88 hands underbet the turn a reasonable amount of time to ensure they get at least a bit more money in from any drawing hands before shoving the river... ie they're scared that by overbetting too soon they'll get a fold and not be paid for their monster... which in turn makes it more likely that a scared A5/58/67 thinks they need to protect their hand...

Obviously with reads about the player that could completely change, but from experience I could never put a random low-stakes player on a range as tight as 55 and 88 in this spot.

Plus I think IDCU is double-bluffing the forum and trying to post a brag hand where he managed to find a call and win in a spot where lots of others would have folded.