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Whats the correct move in this DYM spot?

MP33MP33
edited January 2014 in The Poker Clinic
Two hands from a £5 DYM

Thx in advance


Its not showing my stack but in hand 1 i had 3.4k and in hand 2 i had 2.6k


Hand 2

In the same game is this is a call/shove or a fold?
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
TRICKY740 Small blind   200.00 200.00 4300.00
SoftTaff Big blind   400.00 600.00 1097.50
  Your hole cards
  • K
  • A
     
EsPaN1103 All-in   2062.50 2662.50 0.00
hunjan01 Fold        
MP33 Fold        
TRICKY740 Fold        
SoftTaff Fold        
EsPaN1103 Muck        
EsPaN1103 Win   1000.00   1000.00
EsPaN1103 Return   1662.50 0.00 2662.50

Hand 1

In a super tight DYM should i putting the pressure on here by raising or was i right to fold?
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
TRICKY740 Small blind   75.00 75.00 1175.00
SoftTaff Big blind   150.00 225.00 2947.50
  Your hole cards
  • 7
  • A
     
EsPaN1103 Fold        
hunjan01 Fold        
MP33 Fold        
TRICKY740 Fold        
SoftTaff Muck        
SoftTaff Win   150.00   3097.50
SoftTaff Return   75.00 0.00 3172.50
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Comments

  • mugsy78mugsy78
    edited January 2014
    Hand 1. Worst fold I've seen in donkeys.

    Hand 2. Min raise.

    You're playing way too tight imo. If you're going to play like this you might aswell register then go out shopping or do the garden lol.
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  • cenachavcenachav
    edited January 2014
    Hand 1, easy fold.  You have plenty of chips and no need to risk them calling off the shove.

    Hand 2, min raise and fold if you get shoved on.  If you see a flop you have position
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  • F_IvanovicF_Ivanovic
    edited January 2014
    why are you folding the nuts?
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  • mugsy78mugsy78
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: Whats the correct move in this DYM spot?:
    Hand 1, easy fold.  You have plenty of chips and no need to risk them calling off the shove. Hand 2, min raise and fold if you get shoved on.  If you see a flop you have position
    Posted by cenachav
    I'm sorry but folding AK here to a 5bb shove is just awful. Villains range here is super wide as he knows and so should OP that the blinds go thru him next hand and he has to shove with almost anything. Villain knows once the blinds go thru him he loses a boat load of FE. You just can't rely on other players doing the work in these DYM's, you got to get some chips from somwhere....Folding AK here is a mathmatical nightmare.......This is just taking the concept of getting it in first a little too far..

    I've been on the forums for a month or so and i know who the ones to listen too are..the guy in post #3 Ivan.
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  • Phantom66Phantom66
    edited January 2014
    Hand 2 Given size of blinds I am calling with the AK.

    Sure villain could have a pair and you don't want to be taking flips, however range is so wide shoving with 5bb you will be up against Ax or Kx or often enough to be well ahead, when you are ahead. There are far more 2 card combos than paired hands to tip the odds in favour of a call.  

    Hand 1 - Need to be opening and depending on table dynamic can min raise or shove there.
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  • TeddyBloatTeddyBloat
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Whats the correct move in this DYM spot?:
    Two hands from a £5 DYM Thx in advance Its not showing my stack but in hand 1 i had 3.4k and in hand 2 i had 2.6k Hand 2 In the same game is this is a call/shove or a fold? Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance TRICKY740 Small blind   200.00 200.00 4300.00 SoftTaff Big blind   400.00 600.00 1097.50   Your hole cards K A       EsPaN1103 All-in   2062.50 2662.50 0.00 hunjan01 Fold         MP33 Fold         TRICKY740 Fold         SoftTaff Fold         EsPaN1103 Muck         EsPaN1103 Win   1000.00   1000.00 EsPaN1103 Return   1662.50 0.00 2662.50 Hand 1 In a super tight DYM should i putting the pressure on here by raising or was i right to fold? Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance TRICKY740 Small blind   75.00 75.00 1175.00 SoftTaff Big blind   150.00 225.00 2947.50   Your hole cards 7 A       EsPaN1103 Fold         hunjan01 Fold         MP33 Fold         TRICKY740 Fold         SoftTaff Muck         SoftTaff Win   150.00   3097.50 SoftTaff Return   75.00 0.00 3172.50
    Posted by MP33
    Calling is horrible in 1 

    Min raise fold in 2
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  • mugsy78mugsy78
    edited January 2014
    Infact the fold is that bad it almost looks like collusion. Obv it's not but it really looks like it lol.
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  • cenachavcenachav
    edited January 2014
    Fold in 1 and softTaff is left with 2 1/2 bb and is in the sb next hand.  That is why the fold is the right move.  No need to get involved.  We are not trying to win the DYM, just get in the top 3
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  • cenachavcenachav
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: Whats the correct move in this DYM spot?:
    In Response to Re: Whats the correct move in this DYM spot? : I'm sorry but folding AK here to a 5bb shove is just awful. Villains range here is super wide as he knows and so should OP that the blinds go thru him next hand and he has to shove with almost anything. Villain knows once the blinds go thru him he loses a boat load of FE. You just can't rely on other players doing the work in these DYM's, you got to get some chips from somwhere....Folding AK here is a mathmatical nightmare.......This is just taking the concept of getting it in first a little too far.. I've been on the forums for a month or so and i know who the ones to listen too are..the guy in post #3 Ivan.
    Posted by mugsy78
    So you want to put most of your stack at risk when there is someone very short, MattBates short, at the table and you just have ace high.  As shover will be aware of the stacks at the table he won't be shoving any old rubbish, mainly big pp.  If we are lucky we call and we are up against AQ here but most of the time at best we are flipping for most of our stack.  No need to do that with the other shorty there
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  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited January 2014
    I don't play DYMs but I'd say in the AK hand, 4handed (on the bubble)  and its an easy fold with someone else on 1k. Being 5handed makes me lean towards calling.

    Minraise the other one, prob call off V shorty unless he's a nit, fold to other guy obv
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  • F_IvanovicF_Ivanovic
    edited January 2014
    First one is 5 handed not 4 handed. Obviously if it was 4 handed it would be a fold.
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  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: Whats the correct move in this DYM spot?:
    First one is 5 handed not 4 handed. Obviously if it was 4 handed it would be a fold.
    Posted by F_Ivanovic
    This is what Paul says, keep up ;) 

    As it's 5 handed he calls, but would fold 4 handed. 
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  • gracie24gracie24
    edited January 2014
    Soft Taff and Tricky both with small stacks. Why risk yours when either one could go. If there was a difference in the prize for finishing high I might change but in a dym just get to the finish with no drama. 
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  • TalonTalon
    edited January 2014
      Just did a quick bit of adding up to get the stacks sorted out. And in hand 1 it appears that hunjan01 has a micro stack that cant handle the blinds going through.

     With this in mind as well as the shorty in the BB it makes it much more of a fold.

     Pretty marginal decision either way but with a comfortable stack and 2 micro stack then possibly chip preservation can be the deciding factor here.
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  • IDONKCALLUIDONKCALLU
    edited January 2014
    3 words its a fold ya big chip stack daddy no need to get involved
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  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: Whats the correct move in this DYM spot?:
      Just did a quick bit of adding up to get the stacks sorted out. And in hand 1 it appears that hunjan01 has a micro stack that cant handle the blinds going through.  With this in mind as well as the shorty in the BB it makes it much more of a fold.  Pretty marginal decision either way but with a comfortable stack and 2 micro stack then possibly chip preservation can be the deciding factor here.
    Posted by Talon
    I should have thought to do that. Yeah looks like the missing stack has about 1k so I think it's a clear fold now.
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  • F_IvanovicF_Ivanovic
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: Whats the correct move in this DYM spot?:
    Soft Taff and Tricky both with small stacks. Why risk yours when either one could go. If there was a difference in the prize for finishing high I might change but in a dym just get to the finish with no drama. 
    Posted by gracie24
    Tricky doesn't have a small stack....

    If we call and win we are near enough guaranteed to cash. Giving villain a relatively tight range of 77+, AT+ and KJ, KQ we have just shy of 59% equity. Lets assume that a small % of the time we don't cash if we call and win then we probably have at least a 50% chance and possibly nearer to 55% chance of cashing if we call here. If we call and lose we are left with 1.4k in chips. A small stack but not disastrous, since we have a couple of hands to shove before we are in the BB and there's 2 other shorties that have to get involved very soon as well.

    If we fold here we stll have 3.4k chips. However with the blinds at 200/400 and 2 shorties in the mix it's very possible that 1 or both of them could get back in the mix (either with a double up, or their shoves getting through) So it's by no means guaranteed that we can cash just by folding here and if we go somewhat card dead we might find it difficult to find spots to keep our chip stack healthy. 

    In a strong line up I think we absolutely have to take this spot but I guess in a weaker line up it's probably not too terrible to pass up on the spot especially if the table is playing very tight.
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  • mugsy78mugsy78
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: Whats the correct move in this DYM spot?:
    In Response to Re: Whats the correct move in this DYM spot? : Tricky doesn't have a small stack.... If we call and win we are near enough guaranteed to cash. Giving villain a relatively tight range of 77+, AT+ and KJ, KQ we have just shy of 59% equity. Lets assume that a small % of the time we don't cash if we call and win then we probably have at least a 50% chance and possibly nearer to 55% chance of cashing if we call here. If we call and lose we are left with 1.4k in chips. A small stack but not disastrous, since we have a couple of hands to shove before we are in the BB and there's 2 other shorties that have to get involved very soon as well. If we fold here we stll have 3.4k chips. However with the blinds at 200/400 and 2 shorties in the mix it's very possible that 1 or both of them could get back in the mix (either with a double up, or their shoves getting through) So it's by no means guaranteed that we can cash just by folding here and if we go somewhat card dead we might find it difficult to find spots to keep our chip stack healthy.  In a strong line up I think we absolutely have to take this spot but I guess in a weaker line up it's probably not too terrible to pass up on the spot especially if the table is playing very tight.
    Posted by F_Ivanovic
    THIS THIS THIS THIS^^^. Ivan bang on the money again.






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  • Phantom66Phantom66
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: Whats the correct move in this DYM spot?:
    In Response to Re: Whats the correct move in this DYM spot? : Tricky doesn't have a small stack.... If we call and win we are near enough guaranteed to cash. Giving villain a relatively tight range of 77+, AT+ and KJ, KQ we have just shy of 59% equity. Lets assume that a small % of the time we don't cash if we call and win then we probably have at least a 50% chance and possibly nearer to 55% chance of cashing if we call here. If we call and lose we are left with 1.4k in chips. A small stack but not disastrous, since we have a couple of hands to shove before we are in the BB and there's 2 other shorties that have to get involved very soon as well. If we fold here we stll have 3.4k chips. However with the blinds at 200/400 and 2 shorties in the mix it's very possible that 1 or both of them could get back in the mix (either with a double up, or their shoves getting through) So it's by no means guaranteed that we can cash just by folding here and if we go somewhat card dead we might find it difficult to find spots to keep our chip stack healthy.  In a strong line up I think we absolutely have to take this spot but I guess in a weaker line up it's probably not too terrible to pass up on the spot especially if the table is playing very tight.
    Posted by F_Ivanovic
    AK hand is hand2 therefore only 2.6k behind
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  • F_IvanovicF_Ivanovic
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: Whats the correct move in this DYM spot?:
    In Response to Re: Whats the correct move in this DYM spot? : AK hand is hand2 therefore only 2.6k behind
    Posted by Phantom66
    oops, I missed that, OP was confusing with hand 1 and 2 switched! 

    That makes it different in that calling and losing would leave us in bad shape with a high probability of busting out. However it also means that we aren't in as comfortable a position right now and with only one player really short we can't just wait around for others to bust. 

    What hasn't been mentioned in OP as well is how far away till blinds move up.. and the next level. Is it 300/600? That would leave us with just over 4bb's and if it was coming up soon we'd be in the BB with almost 1/4 of our chips in the middle. So I still think it's a call. I don't play DYM's though and I guess someone with more experience at them might have a better intuition for this. If blinds had just moved up to 100/200 though I'm pretty sure it now becomes a much easier fold. 
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  • peter27peter27
    edited January 2014
    Judging by comments, people seem to be mixing up which hand is which (you posted hand two first for some reason) :p

    Hand 1 (A7 suited) - 50/50 really, you could make an argument for a raise or a fold here. You have a decent enough stack that you don't need to get involved with a raggy suited ace, but if everyone is playing super tight then why not! Personally, it would just depend on how I felt at the time and what my instinct was telling me. You're not in position though which would lean me slightly more towards folding.

    Hand 2 (AK off) - It really depends on the other stack sizes at the table. Don't forget in a DYM we are looking to finish in the top three and not necessarily first. If there were two players who had say less than 1000 chips, just sit on your stack and wait for them to bust out. However, if not, then I would be shoving there. You're unlikely to get a better chance to gain chips than that at this stage - especially considering EsPaN1103's stack size in comparison to the big blind, his range should be quite wide.

    I'm still developing my poker, so don't take my advice as gospel - but I do play low-level DYM's a lot of late and these responses would be my thought processes :-)
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  • MP33MP33
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: Whats the correct move in this DYM spot?:
    In Response to Re: Whats the correct move in this DYM spot? : oops, I missed that, OP was confusing with hand 1 and 2 switched!  That makes it different in that calling and losing would leave us in bad shape with a high probability of busting out. However it also means that we aren't in as comfortable a position right now and with only one player really short we can't just wait around for others to bust.  What hasn't been mentioned in OP as well is how far away till blinds move up.. and the next level. Is it 300/600? That would leave us with just over 4bb's and if it was coming up soon we'd be in the BB with almost 1/4 of our chips in the middle. So I still think it's a call. I don't play DYM's though and I guess someone with more experience at them might have a better intuition for this. If blinds had just moved up to 100/200 though I'm pretty sure it now becomes a much easier fold. 
    Posted by F_Ivanovic

    Thx for the comments

    Still a bit unsure about the AK although i,m leaning toward a call/shove now just because its 5 handed rather than 4. If it were 4 i think were pretty much agreed its a fold. Asd i said it had been a tight game and someone siggested he,d be pushing with a wide range as he only had 5 binds left. This wasn,t the case as he,s let the blinds go through before that in a similar situation so my thinking was i was flipping at best which i didn,t want. I,d rather just shove from SB with any 2 in such a tight game

    @ Ivanovic : Not sure m8 . Don,t think we,d been on the current level that long
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