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30NL - Line Check
How good is bad is this play?
No reads on villain, don't recognise the name but from the short time I spent at the table he seemed fairly competent, not doing anything awful like limp/calling, not involved in every pot but not very nitty either, but this is all from a lol sample size so probably meaningless anyway.
I know it's not ideal running big bluffs without many reads but I hadn't seen him do anything stationy up to this point and I think his line of donking the flop/checking the turn just looks like a weak (non TP) made hand.
Dunno if I should go a bit bigger on the turn but then I still leave myself an easy <PSB shove for the river so probably the same amounts or v similar to what I'd bet for value.
| Player | Action | Cards | Amount | Pot | Balance |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| jimmothy91 | Small blind | £0.15 | £0.15 | £45.94 | |
| slipnslide | Big blind | £0.30 | £0.45 | £62.29 | |
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| X | Raise | £0.90 | £1.35 | £47.36 | |
| Lambert180 | Raise | £2.70 | £4.05 | £27.30 | |
| dubzs | Fold | ||||
| The_oven | Fold | ||||
| jimmothy91 | Fold | ||||
| slipnslide | Fold | ||||
| X | Call | £1.80 | £5.85 | £45.56 | |
| Flop | |||||
| |||||
| X | Bet | £2.93 | £8.78 | £42.63 | |
| Lambert180 | Call | £2.93 | £11.71 | £24.37 | |
| Turn | |||||
| |||||
| X | Check | ||||
| Lambert180 | Bet | £5.40 | £17.11 | £18.97 | |
| X | Call | £5.40 | £22.51 | £37.23 | |
| River | |||||
| |||||
| X | Check | ||||
| Lambert180 | All-in | £18.97 | £41.48 | £0.00 | |
Comments
Think you can rep quite a few diamond combos + KJ and QQ so I think this line is ok against a reg we have history with.
Against an unknown I don't like it as much... Think you may get stationed here to often by AQ/KQ to make the line profitable.
BTW - Turn definitely needs to be like £7ish imo. I think your gonna go closer to this sizing with all your value hands.
you deffo need reads on donking/checking turn range
your only folding out a small % of range, everything else is gonna call
o yeah hero gonna have KJ so often, don't be silly.
do you think vill has combos in range that get there by river or one pr hands that actually fold
also op remove the "competent" comment when they donk and check turn
Will we get this villain to fold KQ, AQ, JJ given the info Lambert has provided? Probably not.
I do think however, that we can get a decent thinking reg to fold this river. (Obvs decent reg isn't taking donk/check line) That's what I was getting at in my first post.
Your simply going to get called more often than you see folds
if we think about villians range consisting of sets, 2 prs one pr, draws, air,
on turn we can probably narrow to sets, draws, one prs, 2 prs
so by river draw combos hit, sets, one prs and 2 prs just ain't folding enough
think we too busy looking at how magical we are by trying to rep, and we still shocked when vill snap calls.
Bluffing air is so over rated sir
I agree in this hand with this villain we are not getting enough folds
So is waiting for TPTK sir
disagree can have draws so much with this line
depends what you mean by types, better regs are not folding
this would probbaly work verus people that just look at there own cards
waiting for TPTK is better than bluffing sir
good time for Lambert to do one of them reveal and vill calls with 8d9d
Regs just looking at their own cards? There are plenty of these about!
Not saying I'm right or your wrong... always gd to hear diff views on things
Not being silly, why can't vill have Q9/Q10 - people just ain't that good
Just because it's a reg doesn't mean they are good
@Ivan
I don't think you can bluff AK on river - that is all I am saying
There's a range where we can bluff river with but AK doesn't sit in it for me, unless we got Ad
check
folded, no fun
2:1 ratio gonna make em indifferant
2 is value
1 is bluffs
Lambert - The amount of value combos and bluff combos your gonna show up with here does depend a lot on your 3-bet strat vs a unknown/competent. If you are shoving AA, KK, QQ for value on the river (Line I would take as played by villain) than you can add more bluff combos to your range.
So vill is gonna be 0EV against your bluffs
Your going to be +EV on your value combos
But you also have to factor in what bluff catchers villian is calling with
You have to also think about what part of your range you check back cause you may have to include these in your bluff combos, we can't be checking back cause it may be -ev -this affects our overal ev line
So if you look at how you contruct your range pre and how it looks by river. If we say we include all AK combos in our range - so that's 16 combos - one of which wins. That is a lot of AK bluff combos, combined with other combos we have to include unless your just 3 betting AA/AK/KK/QQ and only include AK as you bluff combos.
it just gets complicated..........
if your shoving 100%, you gotta remember what % is villian folding - the greater this % then you can add in more bluff combos.
Maybe your not shoving 100% and may check back or bet small with AQ/KQ - but hey lets not go there!
good luck
Colley - Pre sounds fine... Hate raising the flop... What value hands are we going to take this line with?
Sometimes there's a place for constructing ranges and seeing how many bluffs we have in our range V how many value hands etc but sometimes (alot of the time at my stakes) it's just irrelevant. Sometimes we can take a line when facing a bet to just snap fold all our air hands and proceed with 100% value hands and this may be the most +EV line.
Sometimes we can put someone on a range and narrow someone down by the river to a very weak range of hands like bottom pr/4th pr etc and it can be +EV to bet 100% of our air if they're not stationy, and it won't make the slightest difference that we have 10 times more bluffs than value hands cos they'll never come to this conclusion and hero us with bottom pr or whatever.
Suffice to say, I don't think opponent is calling the river without at least Qx+ which is imo a very small part of his range. Also, I'm pretty much readless V him, so he's almost certainly pretty readless V me and my line looks strong.
To spin it round, if you had no reads on me at all, had never heard of me etc and I took this line... assuming you give yourself a reasonable range to take the line of donk flop/check turn, what is the weakest hand you'd call me with on the river?
But seriously... probably Q9, or at a push AQ.
you don't want them folding all the time.
you don't mind if they call, even when your bluffing