Live Hand, Interesting turn/ river decision

LARSON7

I have pocket 99s in the BB, it's an 8 handed table.

There is 4 limpers, and the sb makes up, 5 players in, blinds are 200/400. I have 70k stack.

I raise to 1500, 2 players call including the sb.

Flop 872, all off suit no flush draws. Checks, i bet about 3kish, player folds SB calls.

Turn is a K, checks to me i bet 4k he re raises to 8k. Don't think he's doing this with a K, would have reraised a good K hand pre. I call.

River is another K, he bets 12k i tank for like 2 mins, then this guy not in the hand calls time lol

I end up calling. Didn't think he had a K here too often, unless he had a house.

Thoughts on this hand?

Player has not been that active but now blinds are up has been getting involved in more hands (and raising). Havnt really noticed the player before, at first i thought the whole table was limping every pot. I think this guy is actually a good player, where as the rest of the table were pretty poor. I was only worried cause he hadn't, or i hadn't seen him re-raising any hand so far. But i was thinking he is capable of blufing this spot.

LARSON7

He could also have had a slow played flopped set*, that was the only other thing i was worried about. Don't think he's re raising 10s jacks. Queens you would have expected a raise pre.

I thought it was a house or air.

WHOAMI196

chk turn, call or vbet some rivs

you cant expect to get a lot of value from your hand, esp when the k peels it hits ur range in the face, if he has 55,66 he is gonna fold...

you have to think about what your villain is doing hes called your raise pre in sb, c/c flop, c/r turn ... you are never good imo his line is too strong, and you are now bluff catching.. i dont think he has many air/bluffs, what do you think his air consists of?

fold turn as played fold river.

also i think you can cbet smaller, had a quick look at the math pot just under 6k? you can cbet 3-3.5k here you need a bit of pot control imo

hhyftrftdr

Difficult to see what air he has, and seems a very strange situation to suddenly start bluffing. Generally a turn check min raise isn't gonna be a bluff either. Almost pots it on the river too....

I'm sure you'll say he pulled this move with 9 high or whatever and you picked his bluff off though

LARSON7

Hey Who

It's quite interesting on the turn. Do i check or bet.

I was thinking about it at the time, it's obviously a bit messy when i'm check raised. I thought he's maybe trying to use his image to check raise, but he has been a lot more active the last few hands.

That's why i call the turn.

I'm betting the turn for pure value. I don't see him having to many Kings in his range. He has just made up from the SB. You would think he is raising KQ and definatly AK.

He coould have called with a K 8 K7 type hand i suppose, even K2?? But i didn't really think so. I thought it was more geared towards a slow played flop set or air. The figures above are all approx. I think i bet the turn it was more like 40% pot. Roughly.

I was thinking he doesn't have to many Kings in his range. Basically the check raise didn't make to much sense. Also he wasn't giving away anything with body language, he seemed quite fine.

It's interesting on the turn, i am just betting here for pure value from an 8x or 7x hand.

Would be interested to hear what every1 else thinks of the turn here. Check behind, call a river bet/ if checked 2 value bet? Or bet the turn for value?

LARSON7

In Response to Re: Live Hand, Interesting turn/ river decision:

Difficult to see what air he has, and seems a very strange situation to suddenly start bluffing. Generally a turn check min raise isn't gonna be a bluff either. Almost pots it on the river too.... I'm sure you'll say he pulled this move with 9 high or whatever and you picked his bluff off though
Posted by hhyftrftdr

I was really close to folding the river.

We were having a bit of chat, and he said something, which made my decision for me. I called flipped over my cards and he mucked. He said he had a j9. Seemed like a nice guy, so probably did have a gut shot.

LARSON7

Also i've been really aggro, so maybe he thinks i'm doing this with total air and the check min raise will take it down there and then. And hardly any of my hands have been shown. I've won most hands without going 2 showdown.

KAM99

I'd love to know what reads you had on the guy to be honest. As i was reading your post I was thinking most likely hand was a set, as it made sense of his line. What else can I put him on given the action?

He limp calls preflop. So what are we ranging him on? Suited connectors or a small pair would be most likely to limp into a multiway pot.

Flop he check calls. Again small pair is possible as is suited connectors that he has hit one of his cards or a straight draw.

Turn he check raises. At this point I'm concerned. It's a raise that looks like he wants called and at the point in a hand a raise isn't always a good sign if up against an average player. I agree king is unlikely, but not impossible. More likely to be a set, two pair or a move with straight draw or single pair. For the price I likely call.

River he leads out. GIven the board I can't see us being good here very often. Short of a missed draw trying to rep the king what can we put him on? On that dry a board there is too little to rep to think this is a bluff for me. you've bet two streets and he leads into on the river. In my book he thinks you have a hand that will call, but might check behind if he checks to you. I'm likely folding here, even if I don't like it.

Chris_Mc

could he have hit a set, limping pre with 88   77    22,     hits big, calls your bet, miby he puts u on AK and when the k  comes on the turn he raises hoping you will continue and with the next k would be even better for him.

what did he have?

Chris_Mc

just read the other post there.   

77Chris91

WP all 3 streets imo

peejaytwo

why did you raise so small pre?

4 limpers @400

sb 400

bb 400

so am i right 2400 in there and you raise 1100 to 1500 total?

live poker you may be seeing a family pot oop for such a small raise imo

KAM99

Not read all the posts in case I'm influenced adversely.

As played you have to call the river, or your turn call of the reraise is utterly wastful poker. The river changed nothing from the turn, other than making it less likely he has a king. I suspect you are crushed heree to a fullhouse.

Personally in this situation I might take a check at the turn for pot size control and then call his bet on the river if he leads out. If he doesn't then I bet for value assuming I'm ahead. Main reason i look at this option is that he limp called, so what are we putting him on? He was  happy to go into a multiway pot, which to me puts him on small PP or some form of connectors as most likely hands. Given the lack of flush draws his call is either his PP, straight draw, set or single pair. Two pair he would likely check raise the flop.

So that is why I think check turn is ok, as sure you may get outdrawn giving him a free card, but given the pretty bland board you have to be concerned about a set given his preflop play, and so I see no major harm in not getting to crazy with a pair of 99's.

LARSON7

Hey Kam

I don't think on the turn, i can say i'm scared of a set, or we could ever be. When he check raises, sure that's what he is repping.

I quite like betting the turn for value. King is really a brick, or it looks like it anyway.

I suspect he check raises a flop on the set. I know it's a dry board on the flop, maybe he would slow play a set like this

I've had a few opinions on the hand.

General consensus was bet turn (for value), and fold to the ceck raise on the turn.

It's been pointed out that is the most +ev line, as he is not bluffing here often enough to make this a profotable play.

Just fortunatly this time he was bluffing.

.

Lambert180

When people say 'if you call turn, then it MUST be bad to fold river' or anything of that sort, it's nonsense. People's ranges change on every street. Just 1 example, he may think the turn is a good card to raise as a bluff and he may be planning to continue with the bluff on the river but then another K on the river is a pretty bad card to bluff at again given we've called the turn raise. What would we call the turn with and then fold this river with? The only thing he can get us off is missed draws like 9T and he's probably ahead of them anyway

Most people just generally don't have the exact same range to 2barrel that they do to 3barrel. The river is a new street and a new situation to assess.

I agree with Peejay btw, it was the very first thing that came to mind when I read the OP and shocked no1 else has mentioned it, your raise size pre is tiny, especially when you're sat with nearly 200xBB! After 4 limpers, this deep, I'd probably be making it like 2400 total. If you don't wanna raise that much then I'd say checking is better than a tiny raise, all the tiny raise does is inflate the pot OOP when we're likely to get quite a few callers, our equity will be pretty poor against 2-3 other random hands and our hand will be an absolute nightmare to play 3-4way OOP unless we bink a set.

But yeah I bet turn too

LARSON7

Hey Peejay and Paul,

Re pre flop,

The above details might be slightly out given it was a live game.

Preflop i raised pretty big, it was closer to a 5 x raise . I made a mistake saying 1500 above. I cant remember exactly what the blinds were, or what the exact bet was, but it was a chunky raise. I didnt want 2 go to big tho!