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My Little Experiment..

edited February 2014 in Poker Chat
Decided to have a little experiment during my latest cash game session (on titan) as i was a little bored and thought why the hell not ;) lol.

Anyway my experiment was to just open shove with any premium hand pre-flop no matter how much i had and see how light i would get called by people at 5nl, you know what it's like at those levels, people don't like folding haha.

So i decided to do a sample from just 500 hands (didn't take long it was 2 tables of speed poker) and in total i got dealt 19 premium hands (1010, JJ, QQ, KK, AA and AK, although after i had lost with 1010 v a light call with QJ i decided not to do it with 1010 anymore)

Here are the results from all 19 hands i got called:

QQ v AK - won ($5 pot)
QQ v A10 - won ($10 pot)
AA v AJ - won ($4 pot)
AK v AK - split ($15 pot)
AK v AK - split ($3 pot)
JJ v JQ - Lost ($6 pot)
AK v QJ - Lost ($4 pot)
1010 v AQ - Won ($15 pot)
KK v 109 - Won ($5 pot)
KK v 1010 - Won ($10 pot)
QQ v 66 - Won ($10 pot)
JJ v AA - Won ($12 pot)
1010 v QJ - Lost ($13 pot)
AA v 22 - Won ($8 pot)
AA v 108 - Won ($4 pot)
KK v 10J - Lost ($1 pot)
AK v AQ - Won ($10 pot)
AK v AK - Won ($2 pot)
JJ v 67 - Split ($5 pot)

Started off with just $5 on both tables, most people on the table start off with that amount but some have less and a few have more (e.g the hand i won $15 - the guy had $7.50 or so before the hand but those are just rough estimates rounded up to the nearest pound lol)

First few hands i got dealt QQ, open shove and get called by AK and hold. Nice start! And i realise people won't fold AK to an open shove if they have $2, $5 or $20 lol.

Got QQ again soon after, get called by someone with 100bbs with A10 and i hold. 2 in a row, nice!

AA v AJ - guy only had $2 snap called me, easy hold.

Next 2 were my AK v another AK - both split.

My first loss was when i shoved JJ and i got called light by QJ (which is what i want obviously, but can't win them all!) - The guy only had about $3 though.

Got beat by QJ soon after again, this time i had AK - another smallish pot though.

Always had my doubts with doing it with 1010 but i did it anyway and won a $15 flip v AQ - but just proves that even people with more than $5 will call off all their money pretty light - so they must think i'm drunk and bluffing? haha.

KK v 109 - that guy must have been drinking lol.

KK v 1010 - the guy thought about it for a while but ended up calling his $5 just to lose it haha.

QQ v 66 - Snap called from the BB, easy money.

JJ v AA - First and only time i got it in behind, but i'm a lucky *** sometimes lol. Flop comes A10Q and i river the king. Not so easy money, but i'll take it!

1010 v QJ - Got snap called after i shoved UTG with this, the guy had like $7-8 or so, risked it all with just QJo lol, he won the flip and after that i decided not to do it with 1010 anymore as it would be a flip more often than not.

AA v 22 - Same guy who called me with the QJ the hand before, on a different table though so he didn't have as much :( but still, easy money.

AA v 108 - Ridiciously easy money, got a bit lucky counterfeiting his 2 pair but i was miles ahead pre which is what we want obviously.

KK v 10J - guy had less than $1 and just must have felt like having a gamble, 10Js is nice indeed i suppose!

AK v AQ - Snap called again, and he turned over the hand i was most hoping to see haha. Won easily.

AK v AK - Only a $2 pot but i hit the flush with my AK, i run good sometimes lol.

And finally, the JJ v 67 hand was pretty funny, the worst call out of the lot and the board runs out 45678 for a split pot haha.

So overall at the end of the 500 hands, i'm up about $75ish. Can't believe it tbh, i didn't think i would get that much callers everytime i shoved, there were a few instances where everyone folded but about 75% of the time i got called, pretty incredible really haha. Did people think i was just drunk and just ******* my money away or something? The fact it was speed poker, no-one else apart from the 2 people involved in the hand could see what i was shoving with lol, but the same guy fell for it 3 times!

Don't think this will ever work in the long run though.. thoughts? I did get called pretty light quite a shockingly amount of times.. which is what we want, can't be any easier money than that lol. It was definitely fun though, and a laugh!

Oh and hello everyone, long time since i last posted! I'm still on here every day looking at your diaries and stuff, keep it up they're all a good read :)

EDIT: i know this isn't the right way to play poker or anything, obviously. But if i was in need of a quick buck or two then maybe this could be the way? I don't think i'll be doing it again as i like to play poker properly, it's more fun that way but it was just an experiment haha.

Comments

  • edited February 2014
    Nice read mate.

    ipoker I presume?
  • edited February 2014
    Hi skeg--- I seen Robots do the same a few years ago on a disreputable site -- jj or better tho
  • edited February 2014
    Yes i think Titan is in the ipoker network. What do you think about the system, think it will work in the long run? I mean i must have been dealt about 30 premium hands in 500 hands and got called 19 times (the other 11 or so everyone folded to my shove)

    That's quite a lot of premium hands to be dealt in just 500 hands though, am i right? Lol. But still, £40 or so up i'm not complaining!
  • edited February 2014
    What did you do with non-premium hands, did you just fold everything else regardless? The experiment might be better done if you altered your criteria slightly for different positions. eg. on the BTN you might be good shoving 99s and AQ aswell but UTG TT might be a bit too weak to shove.

    Obviously like you said speed poker is best for this strategy because it's going to take a while for opponents to figure out what you're doing (and besides at 5nl a lot of players won't even care, they're just looking at their hand and deciding if they like it enough!) - I'm unfamiliar with HUDs having never used one but I can't see how a HUD will pick up this strategy? Shoving pre-flop just counts as a PFR? 

    As for the strategy winning in the long run - maybe at 5nl it could be a slight winner but at any reasonable level it won't because people's calling ranges are much tighter and won't just call a shove with 109s or 66 with a standard calling range being QQ+ and AKs, maybe JJ. Although both JJ and AK (suited and non-suited) are losing calls against your shoving range.
  • edited February 2014
    Just to add a bit more to my post.. even if we do come up against calling ranges that are slightly incorrect (JJ calls and AK calls for example), the play still won't be winning long term because although the expected ev of the play in that instance might be a few BB's, you will either be losing a lot of BB per 100 hands by folding every single other hand dealt (or if you are playing other hands then you'll still might be losing EV overall because your range will be weaker as you don't have any premium hands in it) - but even if you are winning with other hands that just means you are a winning player and that this strategy is just lowering the amount you win.

    Also just because a play is +ev doesn't make it the best play. At a reasonable level most of the time your shoves will go uncalled and you're winning the bare minimum with your premium pairs. By making a standard raise size you would usually expect to win anywhere between 10 and 30bb's on average with your premium holdings depending on how good you play them. By shoving your only winning 1.5 (or 1 in the SB) BB's plus what you win the times you are called (no more than 15bbs against a reasonable calling range)


  • edited February 2014
    Limp them for part two.

    Do we think that will be more profitable than shoving?

    I think limping will show better expectation than shoving
  • edited February 2014
    In Response to Re: My Little Experiment..:
    Limp them for part two. Do we think that will be more profitable than shoving? I think limping will show better expectation than shoving
    Posted by TeddyBloat
    At 5nl? I disagree! Maybe at 50nl.
  • edited February 2014
    Iol, yeah fair point, do think it would be close though.

    I still think you still  get it in v AK, QQ etc and maybe get more off the hands that currently fold. Will be stacked ourselves more, but if we play well post flop I think you can mitigate that risk.

    Do think limping would edge it.

    Any one else got any thoughts?

  • edited February 2014

    JJ v JQ - Lost ($6 pot)
    AK v QJ - Lost ($4 pot)
    KK v 10J - Lost ($1 pot)
    AK v AK - Won ($2 pot)
    JJ v 67 - Split ($5 pot)

    Even more rigged than Sky ^^^^^^^^

    Skeg, do you coach? ;)

    wb fella.
  • edited February 2014
    Whenever i got dealt a non-premium hand, i just played it normally lol. I thought people would eventually figure out what i was doing but it is 5nl i doubt anyone is paying attention apart from a few decent players who i have notes on anyway. The fact that it's ipoker and they're are like millions of players on it everyday as well lol.

    I was just so surprised to see how many times i got called to be honest, i don't want to call anyone idiots or that, but i think most people just fancies a gamble at that level as it is pretty cheap lol. Overall i think i got dealt about 35 premiums in 500 hands, and 19 times i got a caller. (60ish%)

    I might do it another couple of times just to see whether it was a fluke or not haha, i'm not bothered if it doesn't work out as i do want to play poker the normal way, i was just a bit bored last night. And i'm 50 quid up so i can't complain can I!

  • edited February 2014
    In Response to Re: My Little Experiment..:
    JJ v JQ - Lost ($6 pot) AK v QJ - Lost ($4 pot) KK v 10J - Lost ($1 pot) AK v AK - Won ($2 pot) JJ v 67 - Split ($5 pot) Even more rigged than Sky ^^^^^^^^ Skeg, do you coach? ;) wb fella.
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    Lol ;)
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