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Folding the nut full house

LARSON7LARSON7
edited February 2014 in The Poker Clinic

There's been a couple of hands on tv recently when players have had the nut full house against quads.

Is it ever possible to fold the nut fh to a massive all in river bet. Chances are the pot will be big enough anyway it has to be paid off, but can we really ever put anyone on quads.

Say we have Ace x, on a 66AA3 board?

Or pocket aces, on a 888xA board?

I suppose it might be easier on board 2, but don't know if we could ever really fold the nut fh?

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Comments

  • SlipwaterSlipwater
    edited February 2014
    Yeah, a lot simpler to fold the boat on the second hand, betting pattern to be taken into account.

    Board one, with pocket sixes? That's very tough.
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  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited February 2014
    You can but don't make a habit of it, you need some reads of course. Calling massive overbet shoves if you're best case scenario is chopping isn't always gonna be great...
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  • LARSON7LARSON7
    edited February 2014
    In Response to Re: Folding the nut full house:
    Yeah, a lot simpler to fold the boat on the second hand, betting pattern to be taken into account. Board one, with pocket sixes? That's very tough.
    Posted by Slipwater
    Yeah definatly, it was on one of the late night poker shows on Sky sports.

    Tony G had pocket 6s on a Ace Ace 66 x board.

    He announced all in blind before the river card was out. Obviously he knows the other guy had Ace x.

    It's a really though 1, don't know if i could fold here.
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  • SlipwaterSlipwater
    edited February 2014
    In Response to Re: Folding the nut full house:
    In Response to Re: Folding the nut full house : Yeah definatly, it was on one of the late night poker shows on Sky sports. Tony G had pocket 6s on a Ace Ace 66 x board. He announced all in blind before the river card was out. Obviously he knows the other guy had Ace x. It's a really though 1, don't know if i could fold here.
    Posted by LARSON7
    I think if your opponent announces he's all-in before the river even hits, it's more likely to be a fold.
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  • 77Chris9177Chris91
    edited February 2014
    In Response to Re: Folding the nut full house:
    In Response to Re: Folding the nut full house : Yeah definatly, it was on one of the late night poker shows on Sky sports. Tony G had pocket 6s on a Ace Ace 66 x board. He announced all in blind before the river card was out. Obviously he knows the other guy had Ace x. It's a really though 1, don't know if i could fold here.
    Posted by LARSON7
    He made it soooo obvious he had quads in this hand though!

    You see the hand later with Kara Scott and Steve Davis and the old £50 notes? Like wtf! lol!
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  • churchy18churchy18
    edited February 2014
    In Response to Folding the nut full house:
    There's been a couple of hands on tv recently when players have had the nut full house against quads. Is it ever possible to fold the nut fh to a massive all in river bet. Chances are the pot will be big enough anyway it has to be paid off, but can we really ever put anyone on quads. Say we have Ace x, on a 66AA3 board? Or pocket aces, on a 888xA board? I suppose it might be easier on board 2, but don't know if we could ever really fold the nut fh?
    Posted by LARSON7
    happened too me the other night v tikay had aa board came 2AXX2 or somthing like that he shoved like 700 as soon as that happened alarm bells started ringing instead of jamming i just flat called..even although i was about 90% sure he had me so it is a hard 1 too lay down
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  • SlipwaterSlipwater
    edited February 2014
    In Response to Re: Folding the nut full house:
    In Response to Folding the nut full house : happened too me the other night v tikay had aa board came 2AXX2 or somthing like that he shoved like 700 as soon as that happened alarm bells started ringing instead of jamming i just flat called..even although i was about 90% sure he had me so it is a hard 1 too lay down
    Posted by churchy18
    You're talking about PLO, right? That's quite different. Quads are more common in that game so, to be honest, you can fold houses all the time there ;)
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  • KAM99KAM99
    edited February 2014
    Honestly I think it would have to be exceptional circumstances to fold a boat when there is only one hand out there that beats us. if there are more maybe, but even then it would be ridiculously hard to do, and odds are you'd be laying the best hand down on quite a few of those times.

    My thoughts are that anyone saying they find a fold in one or other spot is more likely mashing call button and fist pumping in reality when they get shoved on.
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  • SlipwaterSlipwater
    edited February 2014
    In Response to Re: Folding the nut full house:
    Honestly I think it would have to be exceptional circumstances to fold a boat when there is only one hand out there that beats us. if there are more maybe, but even then it would be ridiculously hard to do, and odds are you'd be laying the best hand down on quite a few of those times. My thoughts are that anyone saying they find a fold in one or other spot is more likely mashing call button and fist pumping in reality when they get shoved on.
    Posted by KAM99
    You may be right... online.

    In live play it's an easier fold.
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  • KAM99KAM99
    edited February 2014
    In Response to Re: Folding the nut full house:
    In Response to Re: Folding the nut full house : You may be right... online. In live play it's an easier fold.
    Posted by Slipwater
    In his examples the second one you may think on folding, but I believe 99% of players call with nut FH, live or online. Only reason I can assume you suggesting it's easier live is down to getting a read or tell off the player to what he is holding. If so, then of course, but not always going to get one. Or are you suggesting another reason?

    Also, lot of this would massively depend how the hand played out. In one example good chance it gets lively on flop or turn, rather than river, and so might get some reads as to his holdings. Basing this on just a river shove is nearly impossible.
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  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr
    edited February 2014
    In Response to Re: Folding the nut full house:
    In Response to Re: Folding the nut full house : In his examples the second one you may think on folding, but I believe 99% of players call with nut FH, live or online. Only reason I can assume you suggesting it's easier live is down to getting a read or tell off the player to what he is holding. If so, then of course, but not always going to get one. Or are you suggesting another reason? Also, lot of this would massively depend how the hand played out. In one example good chance it gets lively on flop or turn, rather than river, and so might get some reads as to his holdings. Basing this on just a river shove is nearly impossible.
    Posted by KAM99
    Yeah, the 2nd one would be entirely dependent on how the betting panned out. But you'd never really fold. It's like the nut nut full house.
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  • F_IvanovicF_Ivanovic
    edited February 2014
    Lambert said all that needs to be said. If we're facing a HUGE overbet (ie. more than 4/5x pot) and we have Ax on AA66x for example we can only split the pot at best. Most players won't make a huge overbet with Ax because they don't assume anyone is folding Ax so the overbet is polarised to A6 (blocks quads) or 66.
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