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Really unusual spot - what would YOU do?
I played a Live Omaha MTT last week.
Please forget that it was Omaha, as this situation could happen in any game, & was quite a difficult decision. It could not happen Online, ever, so those who mostly play Online might struggle with the etiquette & ethicacy on this one.
We are mid-Tourney, I am first to act on the flop, & there are FOUR players behind me still in the pot.
I have 10-J-Q-K, the flop is 8-9-2 rainbow. That's a cracking Omaha hand on this Flop, I have outs galore, & we have all options open to us. I'm happy to go broke here, actually, & play it aggro.
Whilst I am perusing how best to play this - initially favouring betting the Pot - the chap to my immediate left - an elderly Gent - lifts his cards up, almost to his face, to see them better.
The mind is a strange thing. I want NOT to look, not to see them, but I can't help it, they are there, just to my left, & I can see them clearly. I am seat 3, Chap is Seat 4, the other 3 players are all opposite us, so THEY can't see what I've seen.
And my man has top set, 9-9-x-x in his hand......
What would you do now?
Comments
Awkward, or what?
If I proceed as originally planned, I'm doing so with information on someone else's hand that other players don't have.
punch him?
slightly different, across the table there was a well known sky player in an spt lifting the cards up to see them whenever it was his turn to play. the person on his right could see his cards each time and always looked. i told him at the break. should I have acted differently?
Here's a sub-question...
What would you predict that Tikay acually did do?
I have seen the exact hand of Player B, but Players C & D have NOT.
Is that fair, right & proper? It is not just Player B & myself, if it were, this would be easy.
VERY tricky if the bloke has just been busted & then you tell him - & the other 2 players - I knew what he had from the start.
But there are 2 other players in the hand. We must consider them, too. We have information that they don't have.
The villain whose hand we've seen is in a real pickle. If he continues in the hand against any action from us, he's essentially announcing he's delighted with his hand. If we fold to any action from that villain, we essentially announce for him that he's delighted with his hand. If we check to him, what's he supposed to do?
What I'm saying is, there's no way for us to do this particular villain a favour. We can't whisper to him that we've seen his hand or we're essentially colluding with him. We can't announce that we've seen his hand without setting up an incredibly weird dynamic which levels everyone at the table. We obviously don't do him any favours by not telling him, either, as that allows us to play perfectly against his hand.
What I'm saying is that the villain has already messed the hand up for himself and there is nothing we can do to help him out. We probably do less to hurt him by keeping it to ourselves than announcing it.
That probably seems a little Machiavellian and I quite agree with Lambert's point on telling him after the hand... Might be uncomfortable.
A lot of people seem to be thinking that the "right" thing to do is announce that you've seen his hand. I'm not sure it's that simple, though, and that's what Tikay seems to be suggesting. One player to a hand, after all.
What did I do?
I was totally confused & befuddled, as this has so many sides to it.
Knowing what he had changed everything, & I was also conscious of the 2 other players who did not have the same info as me.
I also knew that if I bet out, we would get the lot in, he was never folding top set. Equally, the guys behind may come along too, not being aware of what I knew, so I'd get "bonus" value in an improper manner.
I considered, strongly, telling the Dealer I had accidentally seen the guys cards, & let him decide, or calling "FLOOR" for a Ruling.
I dwelt for an age, which I never do, as I could not really decide the correct course of action. If I played & won the hand, I'd end up feeling terrible, especially if I went on to cash.
Eventually, I felt the best course of action was to just let the hand go. Saves so much hassle & furrowing of brows, & battles with my conscience.
So I checked, my man bet, & the 2 guys behind both called. When it got back to me, I folded.
I never said anything to anyone, I don't want to get involved in bad blood & stuff when I play poker, but I was pretty cross with the guy, as it was completely his fault. My grumpyness may have been enhanced because my hand would have won, & I'd have trebled up, but I'm glad I folded, it was the least of all evils.
There was no point me discussing it with the geezer, he was quite old, & you know how stubborn old people can be. I did just say to him "please don't hold your cards up", but he looked at me gone out, think he was hard of hearing. And hard of seeing....
These things just happen in Live poker, praise be not Online though.
Tikay. Hats off to you! Not sure the guy deserved such gentlemanly conduct TBH.
Honestly, I was totally flummoxed at the time, & had no idea what the best course of action.
After dithering for an age, I did my usual trick of doing nothing, I sort of kopped out & just folded.
I think the reply by Melty is excellent, incidentally, & was probably the best course of action.
It is quite amazing, the "knock-on" when one player at a table does something improper.
Talking of "amazing things" that can go wrong when a player acts improperly, even though it is accidental.....
Just shy of the money in a big Live Tourney, it was me to act, & I was trying to decide how much to raise.
Whilst I was dwelling - with my cards in front of me, fully visible.....the guy to my left mucked his hand out of turn, as he was busting to go to the loo.
The domino reaction then ensued, & the guy behind HIM then insta-mucked, as he thought it was him to act, as the guy to his right had clearly folded, & got up to leave.
"Whoa, hold up" I say, & the Dealer then notices.
Floor come scurrying across, & a Ruling was made - my hand was declared "dead" because action had taken place in 2 spots behind me, & I had not alerted the Dealer fast enough.
The Ruling WAS correct, though I thought it was a really harsh one, as I had done nothing wrong, & been punished for mistakes by others. Strange game, this Live poker, eh?