£22 Deep Stack

PiAnOpLaYa

PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalancefffSmall blind 75.0075.009774.00PiAnOpLaYaBig blind 150.00225.008266.00 Your hole cardsKK   xxxRaise 300.00525.004670.00qqqAll-in 625.001150.000.00yyyFold    fffFold    PiAnOpLaYaCall 475.001625.007791.00xxxCall 325.001950.004345.00Flop  63J   PiAnOpLaYaCheck    xxxCheck    Turn  8   PiAnOpLaYaBet 975.002925.006816.00xxxCall 975.003900.003370.00River  J   PiAnOpLaYaBet 1050.004950.005766.00xxxAll-in 3370.008320.000.00      
Just a bit of a line check really.

xxx is a very good reg, I only called pre flop as a 4bet looks like only 2 hands (AA + KK) and i wanted to get value down the streets.

Looks like a safe flop which is checked. Go for a value bet on the turn was surprised when it was called. 

Should i have check folded the river or is bet folding a good line hoping to get value from smaller PP. My thought was if xxx had the J they would have bet the flop?

Once they jam can i beat anything on the river?

iFeesh

Looks almost certainly like a runner runner flush to me.
Probably something like AQ/A10s, given they also raised 2bb out of a 15bb(ish) stack early on. They would certainly check behind the flop with those hands, as it makes no sense to bluff you if they can't beat the guy that's all in for the pot anyway.
They would also likely just flat the turn with AQ/A10s.
And of course, those hands then shove the river. I'd say there is no chance they are bluffing. The Jack would be a good card to bluff at, because it's highly unlikely that you have one, given that you checked the flop, but I don't see why they would ever float the turn just to try and bluff whatever hits the river.
There's a slim chance they had 66 or 88 all along.
I'd be tempted to check/fold the river too. May be a little weak, but I can't see a lot of worse hands calling. Most hands that called the turn have overtaken you, or were ahead anyway, and the times he has a smaller PP, he will likely check behind.

Lambert180

Bet/fold on the river is good imo. Like you said, I don't expect him to have many Jx hands after checking the flop. Don't think you can beat anything on the river.

Something you said tho.... if you don't expect a bet to get called on the turn, why are you betting?

PiAnOpLaYa

In Response to Re: £22 Deep Stack:

Bet/fold on the river is good imo. Like you said, I don't expect him to have many Jx hands after checking the flop. Don't think you can beat anything on the river. Something you said tho.... if you don't expect a bet to get called on the turn, why are you betting?
Posted by Lambert180

as i said betting for value. 

when you have quads there arent many hands that call you but you still bet!

Is pre flop OK only calling the all in?

iFeesh

In Response to Re: £22 Deep Stack:

In Response to Re: £22 Deep Stack : as i said betting for value.  when you have quads there arent many hands that call you but you still bet! Is pre flop OK only calling the all in?
Posted by PiAnOpLaYa

I'd say the PF call is ok, it gives the OR the chance to re-raise, whereas raising looks quite strong and could push him out. Kings are still going to be good on most flops. I would bet the flop though. If he has a J or pocket pair, he will call or possibly raise, if he folds the flop, it's unlikely he will call any future street with a worse hand, so definitely losing value here. Unless you were going for a check raise, but I'd rather just lead at it.

77Chris91

When you overcall the all-in xxx is gonna play very straight forward against you considering your range looks really strong + it's a dry side pot anyway.

As played c/f river imo. Villain still has all the J's in their range as they prolly check back KJ/QJ/J10 on the flop.

Given the way the hand has played there's like zero hands you can get value from when you bet the river. (Assuming 10's etc fold as your never really bluffing in this spot.)

River - c/f />>>>> c/c >>>>> b/f

KAM99

Difficult in some ways, as the fact it isn't likely to be a bluff given the price he is going to be giving you to call, could well be the reason it is a good spot to do it.

Preflop was fine, you want more value and a reraise does look strong and gives UTG a chance to come over to isolate etc.

That said I doubt it is bluffing, and like you say the chances of you being good here are far lower odds I think than being good, and would cost you long-term. As played bet/fold, but as others have said I may C/C the river. While I think a jack is in his range it would be at the bottom of his range maybe given position. For me it's more likely he has a back door flush here.

BigBluster

Tbh Andrew, I'm a little surprised you didn't isolate pre and amazed you didn't lead out on the flop. Both would be the 'standard' play - I assume you had good reads on the villains?

Anyway, to answer your Q - It's probably a fold. Though I would call! It's a huge leak in my game.

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: £22 Deep Stack:

When you overcall the all-in xxx is gonna play very straight forward against you considering your range looks really strong + it's a dry side pot anyway. As played c/f river imo. Villain still has all the J's in their range as they prolly check back KJ/QJ/J10 on the flop. Given the way the hand has played there's like zero hands you can get value from when you bet the river. (Assuming 10's etc fold as your never really bluffing in this spot.) River - c/f />>>>> c/c >>>>> b/f
Posted by 77Chris91

+1. Your range is heavily weighted towards premium hands. Think I would raise pre flop and give XXX the opportunity to make a move on us with what is a great stack size to do it with. If he has a small to medium PP, then he/she will probably just bin it pre to a raise, but equally you are unlikely to get anymore from them when cold calling unless they outflop us. Give them the rope to hang themselves with P/F, with there 10s/AQs+ type hands...

ZIPPY146

hi hhy,

yep its a fold for me..i think where u missed a trick was pre...u dont want to be playing kings against 2 hands..reraise the all in x3approx. then he is only staying in withaj+ and jj+ or he folds.proceed with caution if called

see u on the tables

CraigSG1

As played folding river is fine but I don't understand why we don't reraise pre. We want to get as much chips in pre as possible. Definate mistake not betting flop. The majority of hands that call pre won't fold to a flop bet so again I think we are missing out. 

F_Ivanovic

4bet pre and if opponent is actually narrowing your range down to KK and AA when you 4bet then maybe consider 4-betting much wider in this spot for value against the SS and to get the pot HU.

When played this way I would lead flop - normally wouldn't advocate donking like this but it's a dry side pot and so villain isn't going to be c-betting anywhere near the normal frequency you would expect. I check river. We have plenty of Jx, boats and flushes in our range which we can value bet. There might still be some value in a bet but it's pretty thin and we want some strong hands in our checking back range otherwise we'll end up folding too often to a river bet.

unknown_username

I think you need to rer press you are will to call his ai, surely.

Regardless of this , at the flop stage there are many players who play passively pre with KK, QQ and bet big on the flop. There is certainly a case for a bet on the flop here...it's dry , disconnected and lower cards. You should make a value bet here I feel.

If you make no action then how can you narrow his range? 

You make half pot donk bets on turn which overcards will call I feel never mind JJ . are you learning a lot here. Either probe bet for a third pot or 3/4 pot + and let him prove he has a strong hand. 

River j is funny as it reduces the chance he had one but if he does he is now ahead. And there's that flush which has come in though note the fl DRW wasn't on the flop.

You are getting good pot odds at 2.5+ to 1 to call but I would suggest ch/call on river. His bet size if he does may give you an idea if he is vb'ing or trying to steal. 

I just wonder if a rer pre , bet on flop, then maybe ch on turn etc would have provided you with more info so that you would have had a better idea of whether you were ahead or behind.. Tbh rer is neither weak nor strong considering pot size on turn. You come down to scrabbling around in player notes. There is a lot of info that can be gleaned about your opponent I n this hand. I'd want to call to see but I can't help but feel you are behind now. Interesting to know what he had.. QQ, AK MAY STILL HAVE CARRIED ON TO RIVER and still allowed for raise ai call on flop