some people dont like to fold pre...cracking pot

mrdavies

mrdavies	Small blind		£0.10	£0.10	£18.08
prono	Big blind		£0.20	£0.30	£5.31
	Your hole cards	K K
andyjjj	Call		£0.20	£0.50	£16.03
gavin1969	Call		£0.20	£0.70	£17.02
mrdavies	Raise		£1.80	£2.50	£16.28
prono	Call		£1.70	£4.20	£3.61
andyjjj	Call		£1.70	£5.90	£14.33
gavin1969	Fold
Flop
		4 4 5
mrdavies	Bet		£2.95	£8.85	£13.33
prono	Fold
andyjjj	Call		£2.95	£11.80	£11.38
Turn
		7
mrdavies	All-in		£13.33	£25.13	£0.00
andyjjj	All-in		£11.38	£36.51	£0.00
mrdavies	Unmatched bet		£1.95	£34.56	£1.95
mrdavies	Show	K K
andyjjj	Show	4 9
River
		J
andyjjj	Win	Three 4s	£32.83		£32.83

aka147

It would be interesting to know what Prono's hand was. I am a newbie to this game but I have noticed that there are loose aggressive players that when they see two or more tight players bet big but not all in on the pre flop they will gamble on any two cards that they have especially if their cards are suited and low value. The reasoning being big hands my have each others cards and they are likely to be pairs, if I flop a set will be well ahead and in money. A diferent flop and they bail. They are gamblers and only think of how much they can take you for if they hit. To them nine big blinds are worth loseing because of the returns if the flop hits their cards.  This may be giving him credit he does not deserve, he may be someone who looks at the size of the pot and thinks that unless he stays in the pot and bets he will not win. The bigger the pot the more he will stay jn the game and bet. However if he is gambling with the stratagy I mentioned , if you recognise him for what he is, with a premium hand shove or bet smaller so you may get a chance to bail later if you see him staying in with bigger bets. The gambler who players video poker and just thinks this is a big pot in a one off hand not much you can do about it. However with careful play over a long term you can milk that player for all he has. I would imagine that prono had ace king or 

 a pair of jacks or tens or maybe suited king and queen or jack. He bailed when you bet big again probably read you as a tight player and knew you had a higher pair and was beat. Then you got caught by andyjjj if you had noticed the type of player he was you may have been able too do what the professionals do so well and lay down the pair of kings and cut your losses. 

aka147

An amendment when I said shove I ment pre flop. So removeing the oppertunity for him to stay in the hand with a bet that he feels is worth the risk. Of course the video poker player will call you and in this case you would still lose this hand. However long term the odds mean that you will come out the winner by going all in pre flop.

aka147

whoops if this is a tournament hand of course long term does not apply as any hand can be your last. I tend as newbie too play really tight and think about the way other people are betting and not get too macho about being bluffed so on this hand so would have checked on turn and the river to limit my losses and if he bet folded.

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: some people dont like to fold pre...cracking pot:

An amendment when I said shove I ment pre flop. So removeing the oppertunity for him to stay in the hand with a bet that he feels is worth the risk. Of course the video poker player will call you and in this case you would still lose this hand. However long term the odds mean that you will come out the winner by going all in pre flop.
Posted by aka147

Erm.....shove KK pre flop so 49s doesn't call? We have Kings, we want action from 9 high. Sometimes they get lucky, but not very often.

Possibly the most bizarre advice on how to play KK I've ever seen!

aka147

 Ok so I may be wrong, we all like to get paid off. Like I said i am new to this game and probably miss the finer points and was only expressing an opinion on my limited experience. I keep finding ways to lose with premium hands when I slow play and try and trap with them. So maybe the problem is me not having enough experience. H0wever I think my point about the level of risk some players will take to bring down a big pot is valid. I keep coming across these players and keep getting into trouble. The only way I seem to cope with them is play really tight and be very aggressive on premium hands. This also means my table image is such that if I pick the right time i can bluff and semi bluff with reasonable sucess. This tactic works for me especially in tournaments and sit and go's. cash games I get into trouble more often but may be that is where I experiment more with my style to try and learn new things. I have played about six tournaments since being on this site and have reached the final table twice. One of those was the £1000 bounty hunter and there was 208 players. So I am doing what works for me. Now there are many ways to skin a cat and i am open to advice and that is why I expressed an opinion because If I was wrong someone would soon let me know and put me right. So how do you go about it.

davelufc

In Response to Re: some people dont like to fold pre...cracking pot:

 Ok so I may be wrong, we all like to get paid off. Like I said i am new to this game and probably miss the finer points and was only expressing an opinion on my limited experience. I keep finding ways to lose with premium hands when I slow play and try and trap with them. So maybe the problem is me not having enough experience. H0wever I think my point about the level of risk some players will take to bring down a big pot is valid. I keep coming across these players and keep getting into trouble. The only way I seem to cope with them is play really tight and be very aggressive on premium hands. This also means my table image is such that if I pick the right time i can bluff and semi bluff with reasonable sucess. This tactic works for me especially in tournaments and sit and go's. cash games I get into trouble more often but may be that is where I experiment more with my style to try and learn new things. I have played about six tournaments since being on this site and have reached the final table twice. One of those was the £1000 bounty hunter and there was 208 players. So I am doing what works for me. Now there are many ways to skin a cat and i am open to advice and that is why I expressed an opinion because If I was wrong someone would soon let me know and put me right. So how do you go about it.
Posted by aka147

Take me down to the paragraph city
Where the grass is green and the girls are pretty
Ohhh wont you please take me home.

THEROCK573

In Response to Re: some people dont like to fold pre...cracking pot:

 Ok so I may be wrong, we all like to get paid off. Like I said i am new to this game and probably miss the finer points and was only expressing an opinion on my limited experience. I keep finding ways to lose with premium hands when I slow play and try and trap with them. So maybe the problem is me not having enough experience. H0wever I think my point about the level of risk some players will take to bring down a big pot is valid. I keep coming across these players and keep getting into trouble. The only way I seem to cope with them is play really tight and be very aggressive on premium hands. This also means my table image is such that if I pick the right time i can bluff and semi bluff with reasonable sucess. This tactic works for me especially in tournaments and sit and go's. cash games I get into trouble more often but may be that is where I experiment more with my style to try and learn new things. I have played about six tournaments since being on this site and have reached the final table twice. One of those was the £1000 bounty hunter and there was 208 players. So I am doing what works for me. Now there are many ways to skin a cat and i am open to advice and that is why I expressed an opinion because If I was wrong someone would soon let me know and put me right. So how do you go about it.
Posted by aka147

with little experience i would never reccomend slowplaying premium hands, your post flop game has to be really strong to be doing this and if you keep losing by doing this then that would suggest it needs an awful lot of work. on the other hand just because i wouldnt suggest you slow play them dosent mean you should just randomly start shoving all in cos its just waste of a good hand, enter the pot with a raise and take it from there depending on board texture, if you end up getting to the river with say AA and the board runs out horrible and were facing a big bet we dont need to get stubborn, we can fold, its only one pair remember!!!

and 6 tournaments by the way is not even worth mentioning!!! tournaments are so high variance that it takes thousands of games to know if your style is profitable.

aka147

Thanks here to learn. If I say something stupid I do not mind being told. Just trying to find a method of play that is sucessful and suits me. Also I know that the number of tournaments is not a big enough sample. However I have played quite a lot of games on fantasy chips (i know people play different on freeplay) and I seem to have more sucess in tournaments . I go further and deeper in them. sit and goes I tend to break even and cash games I stuggle. A lot of work needed. Also I seem to get on with omaha and omaha hi/lo. Just enjoy playing and pitting wits against other players. The money is just a way of keeping score and I am staying well within what I can afford to lose yet I have no intention of losing, want to build my bank roll and knowledge.