Ace King. WTF do i do with it!!

ShaunyT

Seriously?

Joking aside. What are some of you cash game pro's doing with AK? Pre or post flop. In position/out of position.

I'm mostly talking about facing 3bets. Because it seems to me its tricky to play if you miss the flop, or hard to get paid if you hit.


Is it best to just get it in pre and take your chances? Or is that overplaying? some people say "oh you got it all in with ace high..... that's terrible"

Any thoughts much appreciated.

churchy18

just watched a hand on sky poker tv and ak v kk was the 2nd biggest pot they just both reraised all in a hit on the river

77Chris91

It really depends on the villain's 3-bet/5-bet Gii ranges and table positions. These really are the key things to consider when deciding wether to 4-bet/flat.

The people that are saying Gii with AK is terrible are likely terrible themselves lol.

ShaunyT

In Response to Re: Ace King. WTF do i do with it!!:

It really depends on the villain's 3-bet/5-bet Gii ranges and table positions. These really are the key things to consider when deciding wether to 4-bet/flat. The people that are saying Gii with AK is terrible are likely terrible themselves lol.
Posted by 77Chris91

Yeah, but like churchy just said (and ive seen it myself) the high rollers get it in with AK for £2000, so surely its a +ev play? Or is it just because the ranges of nosebleed regs are so wide 

F_Ivanovic

In Response to Re: Ace King. WTF do i do with it!!:

In Response to Re: Ace King. WTF do i do with it!! : Yeah, but like churchy just said (and ive seen it myself) the high rollers get it in with AK for £2000, so surely its a +ev play? Or is it just because the ranges of nosebleed regs are so wide 
Posted by ShaunyT

There's quite a few variables to consider. One is the amount of opponents we are up against. Two is how deep we are and three is the opponents range.

In a HU match against just one other player, you would expect to be opening BTN with 90%+ of hands. Suppose you opens to 3BB's. Now suppose opponent is 3-betting against this wide opening range with 25% of hands to 10BB's. You then 4bet to 25BB's with 10% of hands. (Some value hands and then some bluff hands) - Villain is sat there with AK...against a 10% range AK is fairing well against a 10% range. It has around 57% equity. Villain shoves with AK and we call with AQ+, TT+ and folds the rest. AK has almost 50% vs that calling range meaning every time we fold AK is picking up a ton of free money. Here, AK you can see is very profitable to GII.

In 6max though, ranges can become much tighter and a lot of players at the lower limits will only 3bet with QQ+ and AK - some players may be capable of the odd 3-bet bluff but it is just that. So when we have AK and are facing a 3-bet from someone you rarely see 3-betting our hand shrinks down in value. OOP with AKo I'm inclined to just fold if my opponents range is that tight.

If you believe your opponent is 3-betting quite a lot then this is where AK goes up in value again. 

Another + point about AK is that unless villain has KK or AA we are always in decent shape. 99 is a favourite over AK but if we get it in with 99 against a range of TT+ and AK we are going to be crushed (31.19% equity) - if we get it in with AK against that same range we have 41.14%. If opponent is 3-betting a merged range for example which includes hands like 99/TT (possibly JJ too) and we then 4-bet them they have to decide if their hand is good enough against our 4-bet range. If we're 4-betting just QQ+ and AK for value with maybe a couple bluff hands (all combos of A4s) then villain has around 39.4% equity and meaning they should fold. In these situations AK can almost be seen as a great bluff hand - it has blocker value and it is rarely in bad shape should the bluff fail. 

What happens when we don't 4-bet with AK is our 4-bet range then becomes too tight or too bluff heavy. If we're now only 4betting with QQ+ for value but are still opening reasonably wide then a good player will exploit us by 3betting us a bit more and there's not a lot we can do. If we try and adjust and start 4-bet bluffing then we're going to have far too many 4bet bluffs in our range that then have to fold to a 5-bet.

So to stop all this from happening it's much simpler to just include AK into our 4-bet range as long as it's against the right opponent.

tldr: AK can be used for value (eg. HU match) or for a merge value/bluff in 6 max that protects our range but also has good equity most of the time we get it in.

KAM99

The reason people get it in pre with Ak is that with Ak you really want to see all five cards, as it does give you more chances to hit the A or K of course.

As people have mentioned above it's more player based as to how you play the Ak, but I'll try and address EV as you asked about it.

If you 4bet your AK and get shoved on then it will always be +EV to call it I think if my maths is right. This is if the following is true. Firstly you range villian on QQ+ and AK. Also, this assumes a fairly standard level of 3bet/4bet. So say at 10nl if you open raised for 30p and got 3bet to £1 and then 4bet to say £3 Then if they shoved you'd be looking at calling £7 into a £13 pot.

So you will be working on how often you'd lose £7 more, and how often winning the £13 out there. This should make it a +1.4 with AKs and +0.80 with Akos.

On the flip side of this. If I'm the one that 3bets and am 4bet then at low limits I'd be tempted to just fold and pick a better spot to risk my money.

ShaunyT

Great input, cheers guys.

I play 20nl when I play cash. There is a wide range of players, from good regs (both abc and some pretty aggro) to complete stations and some inexperienced players too.

A lot of the time players will come to the table with an odd amount of money (usually under a tenner) and literally not be bothered about playing poker but look to double up or go bust. On the flip side of the coin any player who isn't a reg or someone that I have notes on tends to be quite nitty, so I would 100% agree with the 3bet fold to a 4bet. However the point I made about getting paid when you hit means those nits wont even call 1 street if an A or K has come down on the flop when they have QQ or KK (if an ace hits)

ShaunyT

^^^^^^^^^
I have no idea why that's in bold lol

Lambert180

^^^ KK and QQ is only 1 piecwe of their range though

When we have AK, they'll call a bet on Axx when they've got AQ/AJ won't they or w/ KQ on Kxx etc.

If they're never calling 3bets with AQ/AJ/KQ then we do wanna start thinking about changing the range of hands we 3bet them with.