Reason why skill n go should be tiered

bigflop1

dont get me wrong i think this promotion is a great idea and will get alot more people onto the sng's (including myself) but just say for example :-

1st sng = a £220 dym. if you cash then you have a roi of 81.81% after 1 game.

you then play 29 games of dym at the 60p games and lose every one.

total for the 30 games required would be

400 (winnings) - 237.4 (outlay)  = 162.60

162/237 as a percentage would be 68.49% over 30 games and i would say enough to qualify for the final.


You could say why dont i just shut up and do this myself quietly and not tell anyone... i would but i cant afford to risk £220.

F_Ivanovic

It's based on total ROI % nothing to do with the stake. If you won a £220 SNG and then lost 29 games of 60p DYM's you would have a terrible ROI%. 

bigflop1

In Response to Re: Reason why skill n go should be tiered:

It's based on total ROI % nothing to do with the stake. If you won a £220 SNG and then lost 29 games of 60p DYM's you would have a terrible ROI%. 
Posted by F_Ivanovic

you work it out.. if you win a £220 game then you can afford to lose loads of 60p games. yes you would have only won 1 out of 30 games but your roi would still be 68.49%

tom_mull

I think it'll be an average of all your ROI% and not the way you've described it. If you lost 29 60p DYM and won one £220 DYM you'd have an average ROI of around -90%.

bigflop1

In Response to Re: Reason why skill n go should be tiered:

It's based on total ROI % nothing to do with the stake. If you won a £220 SNG and then lost 29 games of 60p DYM's you would have a terrible ROI%. 
Posted by F_Ivanovic

roi = return on investment

return would be 400.. investment would be 237.4

68.49%

1267

You really don't understand ROI.  Hopefully someone will explain it , but your example is completely wrong and that is not the case.

win 1 60p and lose 29 £220 DYM's is exactly the same ROI as win 1 £220 and lose 29 60p's

Lambert180

To be fair guys, he isn't wrong as such, it's just a wording thing from Sky that makes it unclear.

You'll see 2 different ROIs on Sharkskope

Total ROI = Exactly as OP said, it's based on total £ invested v total £ won so his plan would work

Average ROI = This is the one that comes up when you just get like 5-6 stats after searching someone on there. This wouldn't take into account stake it's just loking at your ROI per individual game.

From the sounds of the promo page, Sky are using the Total ROI option which means OP is right. If they're not, then it aint very clear.

bigflop1

In Response to Re: Reason why skill n go should be tiered:

To be fair guys, he isn't wrong as such, it's just a wording thing from Sky that makes it unclear. You'll see 2 different ROIs on Sharkskope Total ROI = Exactly as OP said, it's based on total £ invested v total £ won so his plan would work Average ROI = This is the one that comes up when you just get like 5-6 stats after searching someone on there. This wouldn't take into account stake it's just loking at your ROI per individual game. From the sounds of the promo page, Sky are using the Total ROI option which means OP is right. If they're not, then it aint very clear.
Posted by Lambert180

thanks lambert...

looks like sky are using total roi where it would work..   the -90% would only apply if it were AVERAGE roi

bigflop1

In Response to Re: Reason why skill n go should be tiered:

You really don't understand ROI.  Hopefully someone will explain it , but your example is completely wrong and that is not the case. win 1 60p and lose 29 £220 DYM's is exactly the same ROI as win 1 £220 and lose 29 60p's
Posted by 1267

no disrespect but i dont think you understand the difference between total roi and average roi

the total roi would be 68.49%

bigflop1

In Response to Re: Reason why skill n go should be tiered:

To be fair guys, he isn't wrong as such, it's just a wording thing from Sky that makes it unclear. You'll see 2 different ROIs on Sharkskope Total ROI = Exactly as OP said, it's based on total £ invested v total £ won so his plan would work Average ROI = This is the one that comes up when you just get like 5-6 stats after searching someone on there. This wouldn't take into account stake it's just loking at your ROI per individual game. From the sounds of the promo page, Sky are using the Total ROI option which means OP is right. If they're not, then it aint very clear.
Posted by Lambert180

quick question lambert.. prob a simple one... but what does OP mean when when i am being called OP?

bolly580

More to the point chaps,

How many £220 DYMs run on sky?

Lambert180

Original Poster ^

Not many/any Bolly, but even if you just played 1 x £40 regular SnG. 1st prize is probably £160 ish, even 2nd would be like £80, then u go and play 29 x 30p DYMs.

F_Ivanovic

Sky got an answer on this?

chicknMelt

we need clarification from sky BEFORE this promo starts. If needs be then they can still update the wording to suit their intentions. after it starts would be more difficult

gerardirl

Ive brought this up and no reply I've also private messaged Tikay.

It clearly has to be average roi so hopefully sky will clear this up. Total roi will be a disaster as I had earlier pointed out but bigflop has put it more clearly thank you.

Certainly has the makings of a fantastic promo.

We shall await skys reply.

1267

In Response to Re: Reason why skill n go should be tiered:

In Response to Re: Reason why skill n go should be tiered : no disrespect but i dont think you understand the difference between total roi and average roi the total roi would be 68.49%
Posted by bigflop1

Fair
I thought it would be a 100% dead cert average ROI.  Apparently not.  madness    lol

gerardirl

Actually just to be clear imagine this scenario.

You play a sit and go for £55 quid and win it (with the help of your friends)so u cash in at 195 quid which is about 350% roi) . You give your mates £55 each for their buy ins costing you £330 quid and you get 300of that back for 1st and 2nd place (net cost £30).

You then play 29 60pence games and lose the lot costing you £17.40.

So your total buy in was £55 + £17.40 = £72.40 and your winnings is £195 

So you win one game and lose 29 and your total roi is 271%.

You make top 6 and guarantee to win how much? at the cost of 47 quid.

Dont get me wrong Im not encouraging collusion but its far to easy for it to happen here. Also regardless if you didnt collude and just bought in and won your first game just play 60p games and you should get in.

How is this avoided? clarify its average roi

Ger

bev60

In Response to Re: Reason why skill n go should be tiered:

we need clarification from sky BEFORE this promo starts. If needs be then they can still update the wording to suit their intentions. after it starts would be more difficult
Posted by chicknMelt

Unless the wording is changed on the promo change before it starts it would have to stand as total ROI I think. ROI without a clause is total ROI?

bigflop1

In Response to Re: Reason why skill n go should be tiered:

In Response to Re: Reason why skill n go should be tiered : Unless the wording is changed on the promo change before it starts it would have to stand as total ROI I think. ROI without a clause is total ROI?
Posted by bev60

Thats what i thought and why i started this thread.. Way to open for abuse if total roi imo... Would be a great promo for everyone tho if its average roi. With games from 60p all levels can get involved.. At last a promo that awards results instead of volume. Thanks sky

bbMike

In Response to Re: Reason why skill n go should be tiered:

Actually just to be clear imagine this scenario. You play a sit and go for £55 quid and win it (with the help of your friends)so u cash in at 195 quid which is about 350% roi) . You give your mates £55 each for their buy ins costing you £330 quid and you get 300of that back for 1st and 2nd place (net cost £30). You then play 29 60pence games and lose the lot costing you £17.40. So your total buy in was £55 + £17.40 = £72.40 and your winnings is £195  So you win one game and lose 29 and your total roi is 271%. You make top 6 and guarantee to win how much? at the cost of 47 quid. Dont get me wrong Im not encouraging collusion but its far to easy for it to happen here. Also regardless if you didnt collude and just bought in and won your first game just play 60p games and you should get in. How is this avoided? clarify its average roi Ger
Posted by gerardirl

Why is it all these exploiters are so bad at 60p DYMs?? :P

GaryQQQ

OP is correct, and it does appear this promotion, while very popular, is somewhat flawed.

However, in my opinion 68.49% ROI won't be enough for top 6. If a ton of players play 30 6-max SnG's several of them will run well enough to make more than that without varying stakes. Some players might even make more than 68.49% without varying stakes in DYMs.

Also you might lose your £220 DYM, after all you're hardly likely to get a soft table at that level. 

Gerardirls example is also true, and more likely make top 6. However the scenario he describes is clearly collusion, which I'm sure the site would notice and all 6 players would be in deep doggie-doo. A seat in the final is worth £833. It'll cost £330 to put 6 players in a £55 SnG. I can't believe anybody would consider the risk/reward ratio making that worthwhile.

gerardirl

Remember you win 300 of the 330 back in prize fund ...so it costs £30 ...create 6 new ids win at least £833 could be difficult to prove collusion. 

Anyhow Im sure this potential issue has been heard so all should be sorted.

So do we reckon dyms or 6 max will be the best strategy? Will any dym players make the top 6?

Ger

GaryQQQ

I concur with footsie. DYM players are unlikely to get there, even 30 wins out of 30 might not be enough for those guys, ROI will still be <100% if stakes aren't varied.

I reckon top 6 will probably all get there playing 6-max.

bbMike

It's been highlighted how to best exploit the promo, doesn't require collusion. Basically play 1 high stakes SnG then if you win, lock up the ROI by dropping stakes for the remainder. The 1st place prize for the SnG is then effectively boosted by the probability of making the seat.

If the rules aren't changed, or aren't clarified I know this will be the approach I'll be taking, as I'm sure will others - probably making the top 6 full of people who used this tactic and managed to win the SnG.