Low Pocket Pairs

peter27

Simple discussion:

Early stages of a DYM (levels 1-2), do you think we should raise pre-flop with low pocket pairs to build the pot for when we hit our set OR conserve chips by just calling (essentially set mining).

Also, does your answer change for levels 3-5?

jimb0d1

Opening I would raise every time, will win some hands and pre and make it easier to win a big pot with your set.  Good players will get suspicious when you limp-call then get super aggro on the flop.

spinky6108

Fold em or limp in for me dont need to take any chances at levels 1 or 2 look after your stack!

JockBMW

Jam It  ) 

That is the title of my new SNG Strategy Book.

It  is also the entire content

I think it'll be a best seller ;o)

Jac35

In Response to Re: Low Pocket Pairs:

Jam It  )  That is the title of my new SNG Strategy Book. It  is also the entire content I think it'll be a best seller ;o)
Posted by JockBMW

I think I read your book.

Confirmed, awesome

alex1229

Never ever limp. Always raising

jdsallstar

I'll give how I generally play these. There's probably leaks all over it but I'd be happy on feedback on my take on it too. Oh and I am assuming when you say low we're talking 66 and below.

Level 1 or 2

Unopened pot

utg - fold pre.
middle position - I probably fold pre but if I am confident I can get away with a limp I might occasionally limp em.
Button - I probably 3 x open.

Opened pot before you act:

UTG - N/A

Middle Position - limp along/flat call a raise. Calling raises here I think is very table and opponent dependant. If opener is uber tight aggressive I prob fold pre. If I think by calling that'll be the end of the action and it's not likely to get raised again I'll flat call. If it's maniac city I probably fold. I want to see a cheap flop.

Button - limp along / flat 3x raises or below. The more players who have limped/called the better. i.e. If someone opened for 80 utg (level 1) and 2 other players call I'd prob call too for the implied odds.

Level 3-5

Unopened

Utg - fold pre.

Middle position - about 50/50 whether I raise or fold. Will fold if table is super aggro and more likely to raise if table is uber passive. Type of players in the blind is very important I think here. May limp on the right table.

Button - raise.

Opened
If it has been raised it's prob a fold pre most times for me. Might reshove if I'm short stacked and need to get something to happen to get back into it.

If I already have a good stack (£3.5k+) at this stage I will prob fold small pockets 95% of the time regardless of position or action before me.

Overall it also depends how difficult I rate the table. If it's very soft I'm less likely to play the low pp's because I'll be confident that someone will pay me off in a better/easier spot.

As I said that's my take and it probably has leaks throughout lol

peter27

Wow, really didn't expect such a variation in responses! Got to admit this has just made me even more unsure - I guess a big consideration is how the other players at the table are playing though - so there is no one right answer.

Jussfold

In Response to Re: Low Pocket Pairs:

Wow, really didn't expect such a variation in responses! Got to admit this has just made me even more unsure - I guess a big consideration is how the other players at the table are playing though - so there is no one right answer.
Posted by peter27

yes, and JD's comment is very close to my view, particularly this bit ref early levels:

Middle Position - limp along/flat call a raise. Calling raises here I think is very table and opponent dependant. If opener is uber tight aggressive I prob fold pre. If I think by calling that'll be the end of the action and it's not likely to get raised again I'll flat call. If it's maniac city I probably fold. I want to see a cheap flop.


It is mostly about situation, and even more so up the levels.  FWIW, I'll only play small PP past level 4 if I'm really short, or if table is very passive - there will be better spots to add some chips to your stack.

peter27

In Response to Re: Low Pocket Pairs:

In Response to Re: Low Pocket Pairs : yes, and JD's comment is very close to my view, particularly this bit ref early levels: Middle Position - limp along/flat call a raise. Calling raises here I think is very table and opponent dependant. If opener is uber tight aggressive I prob fold pre. If I think by calling that'll be the end of the action and it's not likely to get raised again I'll flat call. If it's maniac city I probably fold. I want to see a cheap flop. It is mostly about situation, and even more so up the levels.  FWIW, I'll only play small PP past level 4 if I'm really short, or if table is very passive - there will be better spots to add some chips to your stack.
Posted by Jussfold

Thanks for that Jussfold, very helpful.

Sorry for the late response too!

Jac35

In Response to Re: Low Pocket Pairs:

Wow, really didn't expect such a variation in responses! Got to admit this has just made me even more unsure - I guess a big consideration is how the other players at the table are playing though - so there is no one right answer.
Posted by peter27

Notes

LARSON7

Don't play DYM's Peter.

In the low stake 1s, i guess there is a lot of limping going on? People only raising their big hands, or mostly?

If there was a lot of limping going, it would be a nice hand to over limp in the earlier levels, hit your set and i could well get paid off quite light.

A lot of people say "don't limp" but there is times when a limp, or over-limp, can be useful.

Low pocket pairs in DYM's would fit into this. Raising is fine too imo. Or even folding from earlish position.

acky1985

raise every time all day every day

Jussfold

In Response to Re: Low Pocket Pairs:

In Response to Re: Low Pocket Pairs : Notes
Posted by Jac35

Definitely!

peter27

In Response to Re: Low Pocket Pairs:

Don't play DYM's Peter. In the low stake 1s, i guess there is a lot of limping going on? People only raising their big hands, or mostly? If there was a lot of limping going, it would be a nice hand to over limp in the earlier levels, hit your set and i could well get paid off quite light. A lot of people say "don't limp" but there is times when a limp, or over-limp, can be useful. Low pocket pairs in DYM's would fit into this. Raising is fine too imo. Or even folding from earlish position.
Posted by LARSON7

Agree completely with your analysis, but not sure what the first line was about - seemed a bit random? "Don't play DYM's Peter" - why??

LARSON7

* I don't play DYM's

mrsduck

In Response to Re: Low Pocket Pairs:

* I don't play DYM's
Posted by LARSON7

Lol, I also thought...oooh Larson's being a bit rude there!

peter27

Ahh, that makes more sense! Haha

TeddyBloat

Id much rather call a raise with 22-55 against a tight aggro  player than a loose one. In fact if I knew my oppo had a range of TT-AA id be more likey to play 33 than if I knew he had a range of 'any 2 gapped connctor and all pairs'

We are playing for set value and much of our implied odds come from holding a very disguised monster when our oppoment has an over pair/ top pair / two pair. 

A tight player will hit flops harder than a loose one, we often wont get paid on a 39A board with 33 againt a loose player who is as likely to have 58o as AK and we will likely get barrelled off the best hand when we  both miss. but against someone who is only raising the top 20% of hands we will run into a hand that will pay us off quite nicely more often and we can make more confident laydowns when we miss.

A very passive player is agood player to enter a pot with aslo, as they will allow us to see turns and rivers giving us more chance of hitting a set or even realising our equity when they check down king or ace high.

peter27

In Response to Re: Low Pocket Pairs:

Id much rather call a raise with 22-55 against a tight aggro  player than a loose one. In fact if I knew my oppo had a range of TT-AA id be more likey to play 33 than if I knew he had a range of 'any 2 gapped connctor and all pairs' We are playing for set value and much of our implied odds come from holding a very disguised monster when our oppoment has an over pair/ top pair / two pair.  A tight player will hit flops harder than a loose one, we often wont get paid on a 39A board with 33 againt a loose player who is as likely to have 58o as AK and we will likely get barrelled off the best hand when we  both miss. but against someone who is only raising the top 20% of hands we will run into a hand that will pay us off quite nicely more often and we can make more confident laydowns when we miss. A very passive player is agood player to enter a pot with aslo, as they will allow us to see turns and rivers giving us more chance of hitting a set or even realising our equity when they check down king or ace high.
Posted by TeddyBloat

This is a very helpful post, thanks a lot Teddy :-)