Two similar spots with an over pair to the board

Swog

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
BUZZ923	Small blind		£0.05	£0.05	£11.68
x	Big blind		£0.10	£0.15	£43.85
	Your hole cards	10 10
rizlakid18	Fold
Sp3cialK	Fold
Swog	Raise		£0.30	£0.45	£9.70
BUZZ923	Call		£0.25	£0.70	£11.43
x	Call		£0.20	£0.90	£43.65
Flop
		2 9 4
BUZZ923	Check
x	Bet		£0.90	£1.80	£42.75
Swog	Raise		£2.93	£4.73	£6.77
BUZZ923	Fold
x	All-in		£42.75	£47.48	£0.00
Swog

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
x	Small blind		£0.05	£0.05	£9.62
manik6-2	Big blind		£0.10	£0.15	£9.42
	Your hole cards	K K
Swog	Raise		£0.30	£0.45	£31.00
JimmyWigle	Fold
VINEY73	Fold
x	Call		£0.25	£0.70	£9.37
manik6-2	Call		£0.20	£0.90	£9.22
Flop
		5 6 7
x	Check
manik6-2	Check
Swog	Bet		£0.70	£1.60	£30.30
x	Raise		£3.00	£4.60	£6.37
manik6-2	Fold
Swog

In both hands, I'm pretty much readless, although I had them down as colour coded red and so they must have limped the odd pot or two or something.

H1: Do you raise his donk bet for value? Then once I've raised I'm not sure I can lay it down?
H2: A similar situation where my CB is raised on the flop. Surely it's either shove or fold on the flop?

shakinaces

Hmmm readless I'd fold H2 and fence-sit on H1, probably calling if I fancied a bit of a gamble.

H2 has all kinds of bad written over it and I don't see many villains at this level C/R unless they are very strong which doesn't leave us much wriggle room here.

I'd guess you were facing a set, but two pair or flopped straight could also be in the mix.  The most active players may be playing something with a pair and an 8 or 4 in (87, 45, 46) but readless I think it weights way more towards 2pr minimum.

H1 there is only the set to worry about and there are far more hands that could be playing ultra aggressive vs you. I've seen many AdXd or even A9/K9 type hands play this nuts at lower levels and although I don't have a poker stove, would assume that we are likely to be 50/50 at worst if including all these hands - so with a 1/3 of our stack committed would likely talk myself into calling and then adding relevant info to notes.

It's tough to decide on the flop as well. Personally I'd probably call here, but then there are a lot of bad turn cards as even if we decide the donk isn't a flopped set, any diamond, any 9 or any overcard would leave us in a horrible spot (would figure anything from J9 to A9 could improve).

Donk bets never seem to be anywhere near as strong as c/r, but that all in still makes my heart sink a bit.

freshfish1

I think the only thing similar is your hand. The two spots IMO are quite different and make the calling or folding option easier.
In hand 1 we have a technically worse hand but his range for pushing is less. They are basically sets, tpgk type hands and fds. Shouldn't be against a rage 24 or 49 but these are microstakes so I guess there's a 1% chance he has these. Your infront against all but the sets and you've committed more money to the pot. He also has a big stack which may or may not have been made up from bullying the table before you joined.

Hand 2 is a better pair but we are defo facing more made hands that beat us and not a great favourite vs pair+draw type hands that he may have. Also you've committed less money and calling is out of the question.

Personall,y I agree with shakinaces and call tt and take a note but fold the kings.

F_Ivanovic

Yeah hand 1 is a snap call and hand 2 is an easy fold. Also to note is that in hand 1 we're against an opponent with 400bb's. If I don't know them as a reg then I'll tend to assume they're an aggressive fish on a heater and his pot sized bet donk on the flop confirms that. I like the flop raise but it would never be with the intention of raise/folding. He has so many draws and 9's in his range and as others have said only 22 or 44 beat us.

alex1229

Both are Shoves

Hand 1: You got no money behind you hes shoving with 2 diamonds, A9/K9/Q9 so many hands, no re raise pre flop so he wont have a higher pair

Hand 2: Theyve got no money behind them, Could have A7, K7 88/99 re raise doesnt neccessilly meant theyve hit a straight or a set

F_Ivanovic

In Response to Re: Two similar spots with an over pair to the board:

Both are Shoves Hand 1: You got no money behind you hes shoving with 2 diamonds, A9/K9/Q9 so many hands, no re raise pre flop so he wont have a higher pair Hand 2: Theyve got no money behind them, Could have A7, K7 88/99 re raise doesnt neccessilly meant theyve hit a straight or a set
Posted by alex1229

No money behind them? They've put in a pretty big 4x raise and they have 100bb's behind them. Getting it that many bb's with an overpair (one pair) on a dangeours board like this is just almost never good. Yes, some opponents we encounter might be crazy enough to have A7, K7 and 99 here but most of them will have 2 pair/sets/straights far more often.

77Chris91

Readless...

Hand 1 - Call

Hand 2 - Fold

shakinaces

In Response to Re: Two similar spots with an over pair to the board:

Both are Shoves Hand 1: You got no money behind you hes shoving with 2 diamonds, A9/K9/Q9 so many hands, no re raise pre flop so he wont have a higher pair Hand 2: Theyve got no money behind them, Could have A7, K7 88/99 re raise doesnt neccessilly meant theyve hit a straight or a set
Posted by alex1229

Readless though, I think the low variance option seems better here.

If you carry on playing for another hour and it turns out they are rock, pat yourself on the back for what must have been a good fold.

If they turn out to be more creative, OK you may well have missed the early opportunity, but will get plenty of other chances to take their money later in the session.

Although caveat this by confirming that I am a super tight nit that only puts money in when I have the nuts...

Swog

Thanks for the advice so far, i'll keep the thread going for a while longer before I post what i decided to do and the outcome. 

I think the KK one is the hand i'm most interested to here opinions about.

grantorino

1 I prob flat a pot size donk readless, don't mind the raise obv you are never folding if you raise

2 tough spot prob fold. Certainly think he can have some worse overpairs in his range though