aggression stats

THEROCK573

i have a style that works for me and is profitable in mtts, i use pokertracker 4 when im playing on other sites though and my stats on there concern me, i think im playing way to tight. my pre flop raise % is around the 15% mark and my 3bet % is only around the 8% mark, am i playing way to tight? you can get away with it and still make good profit but when you see some of the good regs on there with sick profit there pre flop raise % is around the 25% to 30% mark and they are 3 betting around 15% aswell.  also anyone who plays me often on here regularly do i come across to tight to you?

77Chris91

We talking 6-max or FR?

8% 3-Bet is pretty balanced.

15% PFR is pretty tight (For 6-max).

THEROCK573

mixture of 6 max and 9max

F_Ivanovic

LAG's will always be bigger winners at poker than TAG's. However, there are far more winning players that are TAG's than LAG's because it is a much safer/easier style to play. If you have a style that works, then in general you want to stick with it. I class myself more as a LAG.. I'd estimate my PFR to be around the 25-30% mark although my 3bet is prob similar to that of a TAG.

On sky I find you can raise a lot and get away with it but on other sites it's harder to do that and so playing LAG can be quite high variance and also un-necessary (eg. why get into a 3/4betting war with someone that's good on the table when you can win chips from the weaker players at the table) - so if I were to play on another site I might end up playing a more TAG style.

9 max I guess 15% is probably fine.

77Chris91

Seems fine then. Standard TAG stats overall.

Wouldn't worry about stats too much tbh. Who cares if your winning £££.

RyanC7

1 note I have on you:

Folds the turn 110% of the time in my 3b pots unless he has quads.

I think your a nit, and I'm a nit

THEROCK573

In Response to Re: aggression stats:

1 note I have on you: Folds the turn 110% of the time in my 3b pots unless he has quads. I think your a nit, and I'm a nit
Posted by RyanC7

when is the note dated out of interest? i cant say ive tangled with u to much as of late apart from last weeks roller wen i was on mega tilt and u kept 3betting the sh** out of me in position.

upaymenow

And this is coming from a guy who shoves all in j3 off pre... ivwouldntvsay you were too tight. Id say a bully lol 

THEROCK573

In Response to Re: aggression stats:

And this is coming from a guy who shoves all in j3 off pre... ivwouldntvsay you were too tight. Id say a bully lol 
Posted by upaymenow

i shove all in with j3? i highly doubt it unless it got folded round to me and i was short stacked or i was a big stack putting pressure on a short stack blind on blind or something, u sure u got the right person?

RyanC7

In Response to Re: aggression stats:

In Response to Re: aggression stats : when is the note dated out of interest? i cant say ive tangled with u to much as of late apart from last weeks roller wen i was on mega tilt and u kept 3betting the sh** out of me in position.
Posted by THEROCK573

 I was messing mate. I think you are pretty tight tho. Nothing wrong with that? Least your not a spack like me pal

THEROCK573

In Response to Re: aggression stats:

In Response to Re: aggression stats :  I was messing mate. I think you are pretty tight tho. Nothing wrong with that? Least your not a spack like me pal
Posted by RyanC7

oh ok, u almost gave me a complex there haha

upaymenow

In Response to Re: aggression stats:

In Response to Re: aggression stats : oh ok, u almost gave me a complex there haha
Posted by THEROCK573

I was joking about the j3 but ta for the info ha1

DoubleAAA

Based on your stats this is what you're playing:

Pre flop 15.2%
66+, A7s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KTo+, QJo

3bet 8.1%
88+, ATs+, KTs+, QJs, AJo+

I would say it really does come down to what style suits you.  If you're comfortable to be opening much wider then go for it.  I think somewhere around 20-24% pfr for 6max is fine with a 3bet % of around 12%.

Other things to take a closer look at would be your cbet % and your fold to cbet %, 3bet %

jordz16

Yeah i have you down as being pretty tight. but if its not broke dont fix it.

I play way too loose in tournaments but it's the style thats done best for me so i have stuck with it, its always good to make slight changes to your game to make yourself a bit less predictable but no point doing anything drastic while you are making money.

F_Ivanovic

I've always given you credit when you're at my table because I figure I don't want to be messing with a rock!!

THEROCK573

In Response to Re: aggression stats:

Based on your stats this is what you're playing: Pre flop 15.2% 66+, A7s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KTo+, QJo 3bet 8.1% 88+, ATs+, KTs+, QJs, AJo+ I would say it really does come down to what style suits you.  If you're comfortable to be opening much wider then go for it.  I think somewhere around 20-24% pfr for 6max is fine with a 3bet % of around 12%. Other things to take a closer look at would be your cbet % and your fold to cbet %, 3bet %
Posted by DoubleAAA

my cbet flop percentage is 76% and my fold to flop cbet is 58%

DoubleAAA

In Response to Re: aggression stats:

In Response to Re: aggression stats : my cbet flop percentage is 76% and my fold to flop cbet is 58%
Posted by THEROCK573

With villain hitting the flop 35% your fold flop cbet% is a bit too high.  I'd look to not fold too easily on the flop, floating or raising slightly more. 

Your cbet % is fine although check cbet success %.  Another thing to look for in correlation is your turn cbet%.  Example let's say your flop cbet % is 76% but your turn cbet% is ~25% this would make you a floaters dream as they'll call off your cbets and look to take the pot away from you on the turn 75% of the time.

jdsallstar

In Response to Re: aggression stats:

In Response to Re: aggression stats : With villain hitting the flop 35% your fold flop cbet% is a bit too high.  I'd look to not fold too easily on the flop, floating or raising slightly more.  Your cbet % is fine although check cbet success %.  Another thing to look for in correlation is your turn cbet%.  Example let's say your flop cbet % is 76% but your turn cbet% is ~25% this would make you a floaters dream as they'll call off your cbets and look to take the pot away from you on the turn 75% of the time.
Posted by DoubleAAA

I've no idea about these percentages really so this is as much a query as anything but surely your fold to cbet should be quite a bit higher than 35% because they dont always have to hit flop to be ahead and playing the hand out of position is gonna be tricky on turn and river regardless if they've hit flop or not?!

77Chris91

C-bet stats seem fine given your PFR %

I wouldn't recommend 3-betting 12% however unless your comfortable having a 5-bet bluff range.

DoubleAAA

In Response to Re: aggression stats:

In Response to Re: aggression stats : I've no idea about these percentages really so this is as much a query as anything but surely your fold to cbet should be quite a bit higher than 35% because they dont always have to hit flop to be ahead and playing the hand out of position is gonna be tricky on turn and river regardless if they've hit flop or not?!
Posted by jdsallstar

Well tbh the fold to cbet % really depends on the 'bet sizes' that it faces and also there will be boards which hits villains range so hard that we always have to fold.  I did not say it should be 35%, I said that folding 58% was too high as they only hit the board 35% of the time. 

Example, villain cbets 70% (50% hit, 50% bluff) and we fold 58%.  This means we're folding too often and villain can exploit us by cbetting far more often. 

jdsallstar

In Response to Re: aggression stats:

In Response to Re: aggression stats : Well tbh the fold to cbet % really depends on the 'bet sizes' that it faces and also there will be boards which hits villains range so hard that we always have to fold.  I did not say it should be 35%, I said that folding 58% was too high as they only hit the board 35% of the time.  Example, villain cbets 70% (50% hit, 50% bluff) and we fold 58%.  This means we're folding too often and villain can exploit us by cbetting far more often. 
Posted by DoubleAAA

Cheers DoubleAAA. 

If we assume 1 in 16 of the hands is a pocket pair so 6% of his hands don't in theory need to hit the flop. 

So 50% hits flop + 6% pocket pairs that don't need to hit = 56%. 

Or is that just mathematical bs? lol 

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: aggression stats:

Based on your stats this is what you're playing: Pre flop 15.2% 66+, A7s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KTo+, QJo 3bet 8.1% 88+, ATs+, KTs+, QJs, AJo+ I would say it really does come down to what style suits you.  If you're comfortable to be opening much wider then go for it.  I think somewhere around 20-24% pfr for 6max is fine with a 3bet % of around 12%. Other things to take a closer look at would be your cbet % and your fold to cbet %, 3bet %
Posted by DoubleAAA

My display shows only 3 very basic stats which allow me to multi table micro stakes tournaments more easily, so I'm a noob with stats n stuff, but this looks like a very wide range of hands to be 3betting? Not tight.....

It also assumes 100% of our 3bets are for value? I'd imagine a fair few will be bluffs v late pos openers etc?

Would it be more useful if you could get "stats by chipstack". In level 1/2/3/4 I doubt many winning players will be 3betting this wide.... ?

But with 10-30xbb ish a lot of these are legit re-shoving hands?

Stats appear misleading to me. Prob why I turn them off!

DoubleAAA

In Response to Re: aggression stats:

In Response to Re: aggression stats : Cheers DoubleAAA.  If we assume 1 in 16 of the hands is a pocket pair so 6% of his hands don't in theory need to hit the flop.  So 50% hits flop + 6% pocket pairs that don't need to hit = 56%.  Or is that just mathematical bs? lol 
Posted by jdsallstar

This is getting complicated now lol.  Let's say villain plays 25% of hands (25 in 100)so this will mean that 24% (1 in 4 of his played hands) of the time he will have a pocket pair with the remaining 76% being 2 unpaired cards.  His unpaired cards will connect with the flop 32.3% (rounded up to 35%).

So in short, 3/4 of his hands will be unpaired and will only connect 1 in 3 times whilst the other 1/4 it will be a pocket pair. 

I'm not really sure what you're question is and my brain is fried with all of these percentages

DoubleAAA

In Response to Re: aggression stats:

In Response to Re: aggression stats : My display shows only 3 very basic stats which allow me to multi table micro stakes tournaments more easily, so I'm a noob with stats n stuff, but this looks like a very wide range of hands to be 3betting? Not tight..... It also assumes 100% of our 3bets are for value? I'd imagine a fair few will be bluffs v late pos openers etc? Would it be more useful if you could get "stats by chipstack". In level 1/2/3/4 I doubt many winning players will be 3betting this wide.... ? But with 10-30xbb ish a lot of these are legit re-shoving hands? Stats appear misleading to me. Prob why I turn them off!
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

I guess I play a very LAG style as mine is almost 10% (probably a leak) and was trying to get the rock to loosen up! 

I suppose looking at it again the 8% is fine for 6max (could even go lower to ~6%) and would be somewhat high for full ring.

THEROCK573

In Response to Re: aggression stats:

In Response to Re: aggression stats : With villain hitting the flop 35% your fold flop cbet% is a bit too high.  I'd look to not fold too easily on the flop, floating or raising slightly more.  Your cbet % is fine although check cbet success %.  Another thing to look for in correlation is your turn cbet%.  Example let's say your flop cbet % is 76% but your turn cbet% is ~25% this would make you a floaters dream as they'll call off your cbets and look to take the pot away from you on the turn 75% of the time.
Posted by DoubleAAA

turn cbet is 52%

jdsallstar

In Response to Re: aggression stats:

In Response to Re: aggression stats : This is getting complicated now lol.  Let's say villain plays 25% of hands (25 in 100)so this will mean that 24% (1 in 4 of his played hands) of the time he will have a pocket pair with the remaining 76% being 2 unpaired cards.  His unpaired cards will connect with the flop 32.3% (rounded up to 35%). So in short, 3/4 of his hands will be unpaired and will only connect 1 in 3 times whilst the other 1/4 it will be a pocket pair.  I'm not really sure what you're question is and my brain is fried with all of these percentages
Posted by DoubleAAA

lol I have a habit of doing that!

I was just trying to think through what percentage of the time we should continue vs a cbet. 

My brains fried too lol

shakinaces

In Response to Re: aggression stats:

In Response to Re: aggression stats : This is getting complicated now lol.  Let's say villain plays 25% of hands (25 in 100)so this will mean that 24% (1 in 4 of his played hands) of the time he will have a pocket pair with the remaining 76% being 2 unpaired cards.  His unpaired cards will connect with the flop 32.3% (rounded up to 35%). So in short, 3/4 of his hands will be unpaired and will only connect 1 in 3 times whilst the other 1/4 it will be a pocket pair.  I'm not really sure what you're question is and my brain is fried with all of these percentages
Posted by DoubleAAA

How is 'connecting' with the flop defined - is this specific to hitting a made hand or does this also include flopped flush/straight draws which still have huge equity and are legitimately c-betting?

If it only counts made hands (pair or better) then would the 'ideal' fold to c-bet percentage need to be a bit higher, given we are often going to behind to strong draws.

Are the 3-bet ranges discussed in here specific to tournaments, or is 8-12% 3-bet consiered to be a good range to be within at cash also?

This is invariably way too advanced for someone at my level to really utilise, but the stat side of poker has always been oddly interesting.

F_Ivanovic

The less we open, the more we should c-bet in general. (Also the less we defend to an open, the more we should be willing to continue vs a c-bet, depending on the opener ofc)

I open a lot of BTN's and quite a few CO's in tournaments but if a tight player calls me and I have opened with garbage I will c-bet very infrequently.  This is an aspect of my tournament strategy I've changed from what I used to do - in the past I would open very wide but also c-bet wide which meant I either had to give up OTT a lot or I would get into situations where I fire too many barrels as a bluff or stack off lighter post-flop because I assumed people were playing back at me because of how wide I was.

Suppose we min-open BTN 100% of the time and we get folds 65% of the time. We automatically show a profit from this even if we just always give up post flop when called. Playing a small ball approach and just exploiting people folding too much is just a great way to steadily accumulate chips in a tournament!