Sky Poker forums will be temporarily unavailable from 11pm Wednesday July 25th.
Sky Poker Forums is upgrading its look! Stay tuned for the big reveal!
Struggling to understand rake impact on split pots
OK - I probably should just call this, as I'm 95% that villain has the Ace and that we're splitting the pot from turn onwards. He's never bluffing and frequently over shoves decent made hands.
The fact villain only calls the flop means I can include PP, any King and flush draws in his range, as well as aces (which I obviously need to proceed with caution vs).
What throws me in these hands is the impact of rake when the pot is split - I always seem to barely get my money back (or lose if shortie also has an Ace... or in this case, quads).
When factoring in the rake PLUS the 5% of time that villain has the 4 (or 0.01% of time he has KK), does it then make it a -EV play to call with the full house here?
Is there an easy rule of thumb I can apply to work out whether or not its worth calling for a likely split? Ie if I've committed less than XX BB I should always fold / more than YY BB I should always call?
Player | Action | Cards | Amount | Pot | Balance |
---|
shortie | Small blind | | £0.04 | £0.04 | £0.94 |
villain | Big blind | | £0.08 | £0.12 | £10.38 |
| Your hole cards | | | | |
shakinaces | Raise | | £0.20 | £0.32 | £15.85 |
xxx | Fold | | | | |
shortie | Raise | | £0.28 | £0.60 | £0.66 |
villain | Call | | £0.24 | £0.84 | £10.14 |
shakinaces | Call | | £0.12 | £0.96 | £15.73 |
Flop |
---|
| | | | | |
shortie | Bet | | £0.64 | £1.60 | £0.02 |
villain | Call | | £0.64 | £2.24 | £9.50 |
shakinaces | Call | | £0.64 | £2.88 | £15.09 |
Turn |
---|
| | | | | |
shortie | All-in | | £0.02 | £2.90 | £0.00 |
villain | Raise | | £0.10 | £3.00 | £9.40 |
shakinaces | Call | | £0.10 | £3.10 | £14.99 |
River |
---|
| | | | | |
villain | All-in | | £9.40 | £12.50 | £0.00 |
shakinaces | Fold | | | | |
villain | Unmatched bet | | £9.40 | £3.10 | £9.40 |
shortie | Show | | | | |
villain | Show | | | | |
shortie | Win | Four 4s | £2.72 | | £2.72 |
villain | Win | Full House, 4s and Aces | £0.14 | | £9.54 |
0 ·
Comments
If the other big stack had been raising I'd have gotten out of there quick sharp (especially if he was the 3 better), but I was happy to play pots in position vs him and would have expected to see my hand be good here a reasonable amount of the time.
In cash, if I call, I get my money back minus the rake. Therefore that makes it -EV surely? It's only +EV if what I lose with the river call is off-set by what was in the pot on the turn.
Fwiw, I did something very similar the other day when the board ran out as a straight and I both cards at the top end of the straight to make the nuts so overbet the river and get called. Your hand is a bit different though and it sucks when he has 4x but this is gonna be Ax soooooo often and you'll be giving up winning 50% of £3.10 just to avoid paying 20p of rake too often imo.
Yeah that makes sense - I think my problem is that I don't know how much rake I will be paying on the pot - ie if I'm only paying 20p to win back £1.50 then yeah it's a call and sucks the 1/20 times he has the 4, gg him.
It was more trying to understand if there is a quick way to calc that 20p figure (or whatever the sum is). I mean, if it's going to cost me an extra £1.40 in rake to get the £1.50 back then it becomes less of a snap call (unless it HAS to be a split) as you have to factor in losing the pot versus a 1BB profit on the river call.
Sorry. I just suffer with OCD over numbers. I should probably just always call any of these split/jam situations, even the obviously negative ones (ie limped pre SB vs BB with a rainbow AKQJT board) and figure that the +EV calls will outweigh the -EV over the long term.
Thanks both for your posts.