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Sync Breaks - explanation & discussion thread.

edited April 2014 in Poker Chat

Good morning.
 
There have been several threads about these recently, most notably yesterday, when The Rt Hon Melty started one. He got much support for his view, but not total support - one chap argued 100% the other way. Such is life. There is, of course, no one-size fits all answer. Not everyone can be happy at how they are applied, nor everyone unhappy. (See "Abraham Lincoln").
 
I make a bit of a nuisance of myself by sending all these threads up to Head Office, & I sort of sense the suits groaning when they get yet another note from me. But at least it makes them aware of general views from players, so if the Suits get a bit miffed with me, so be it. My notes are always scrupulously polite though, & politeness is much under-estimated, as folks generally take more notice of polite stuff than rude stuff. If you had to deal with 2 people, & one was polite, & the other shouty-wouty, who would YOU deal with first?
 
Anyway, the chap that sorts Sync Breaks - & most other day to day tweaks, bells & whistles, replied to me, in great detail, & I'm going to paraphrase/post what he wrote.  

Note that he can - & will - change ANY of the Sync Breaks if a good case is made. 

What he cannot do though is please everyone. 

So I'll list his points below, & if you have anything you disagree with, fire away, & I'll ask him to look at it if a good case is made. 

I'm pretty sure the current Sync Break allocation is not 100% correct, a few anamolies are bound to slip through. These CAN be changed, at the touch of a button. Most, however, are OK.      
  

More follows......

Comments

  • edited April 2014


    Not all Tourneys have Sync Breaks. There are usually good reasons for this.

    When deciding what should, or should not, have Sync Breaks, the question at the top of the checklist is......

    Would having a Sync Break make that specific game more, or less, enjoyable?

    It does not matter a jot or tickle one way or another to Sky Poker whether there is a Sync Break or not, it is meaningless to the Business, EXCEPT to TRY & give players a comfortable playing experience. There is no hidden agenda here, no angle, no financial purpose, just "what do we think works best for the players?"  


  • edited April 2014


    Start Time

    If a Tourney or Satellite starts at 40 or 50 minutes past the hour, has 10 or 12 runners, & is set to conclude within 30 minutes, should it play for 5 or 10 minutes & then immediately break?

    Logically, no, & that is the default.
     
    "Grinders", (strewth, I loathe that word in its poker context) who are playing 10 MTT's at the same time, of course, will disagree, as it's awkward for them. But the vast majority of players are one-Tabling.
  • edited April 2014


    Blind Structures/Length of Tourney/Satellite

    This one is a bit more awkward.

    Assume, say, a fast structured Tourney or Satellite, (5 min or less blinds), expected, in most cases, as with, say, a Satellite with a 1 in 10 or 1 in 5 payout, most of these dont get many runners & are not expected to run for an hour.

    The general rule in these cases is NOT to have a Sync Break.    
     
  • edited April 2014


    Satellites

    Satellites that run far ahead of the Tourney start time, (early semis & "directs" days before the event) with 10 minute blinds have no danger of running beyond the Target Tourney Registration time, so Sync Breaks are usually included. A perk of satelliting in early, if you like.
     
    But.....

    Semis, such as the £20k Roller Semi that start @ 6pm on Sunday have 7 minute blinds. The players in these EXPECT this to conclude BEFORE the Target Tourney commences @ 8pm. So Sync Breaks are turned off, to avoid the players sitting in late. 

    They COULD, of course, start the 6pm Semi @ 5pm, & include Sync Breaks. The data suggests - very strongly indeed - that this lessens the number of runners. Poker players, by nature, tend to leave things to the last possible minute. A 5pm Semi-Final would have far less runners. It's the "how long is a piece of string?" thing. 

    Same applies to Late Reg Semis, & Directs which commence near or even after the Tourney start time. The danger is these running BEYOND the Late Reg period in the Target Tourney. So no Sync Breaks.
          
  • edited April 2014
    In Response to Re: Sync Breaks - explanation & discussion thread.:
    Start Time If a Tourney or Satellite starts at 40 or 50 minutes past the hour, has 10 or 12 runners, & is set to conclude within 30 minutes, should it play for 5 or 10 minutes & then immediately break? Logically, no, & that is the default.   "Grinders", (strewth, I loathe that word in its poker context) who are playing 10 MTT's at the same time, of course, will disagree, as it's awkward for them. But the vast majority of players are one-Tabling.
    Posted by Tikay10
    wow

    I didn't even know that was possible!

    But are the number of mtts played in the evening by single tablers more than that played by multi-tablers. I think that would be a better comparison. In fact do single-tablers count at all!!!!!!!!!! assuming we aren't hitting any of your other constraints (ie not finishing before the event starts) then a single tabler twiddling his thumbs for 5 mins surely pales in comparison to a multi-tablers need to complete certain bodily functions!


  • edited April 2014


    Freerolls

    These are USUALLY fast-structured, & so don't need Sync Breaks.
     
    If a Freeroll is expected to have a lot of runners, & have a slightly slower structure (such as the i-Pad freerolls), then Sync Breaks may be included.
     
  • edited April 2014
    In Response to Sync Breaks - explanation & discussion thread.:
    . My notes are always scrupulously polite though, & politeness is much under-estimated, as folks generally take more notice of polite stuff than rude stuff. If you had to deal with 2 people, & one was polite, & the other shouty-wouty, who would YOU deal with first?  
    Posted by Tikay10
    You are a true gent, but dare i say it, increasingly an anachronism in this modern age. How many times does one sit politely by while mr shouty-wouty barges in and gets looked after (anything to get them to go away). I do admire those who are able to put them in their place instead.
  • edited April 2014


    So, that's a sort of broad brush outline of how where why & when as to Sync Breaks.

    Some Tourneys may be wrong, most are right, but if you have any constructive feedback, Post it, & I promise, it will be considered. They can be added or removed at the touch of a button, & Sky Poker have no agenda here, either way - it does not matter to them - except to give as many players as possible the most comfortable & enjoyable playing experience. Working together, we can help make things like this better. But there is no way to please everyone. 

    I must add thanks to "Sky Peter" - lets call him Peter the Plumber, as he fixes broken syncs, amongst a myriad of other stuff - who took the time to explain all this.




  • edited April 2014
    In Response to Re: Sync Breaks - explanation & discussion thread.:
    In Response to Re: Sync Breaks - explanation & discussion thread. : wow I didn't even know that was possible! But are the number of mtts played in the evening by single tablers more than that played by multi-tablers. I think that would be a better comparison. In fact do single-tablers count at all!!!!!!!!!! assuming we aren't hitting any of your other constraints (ie not finishing before the event starts) then a single tabler twiddling his thumbs for 5 mins surely pales in comparison to a multi-tablers need to complete certain bodily functions!
    Posted by GELDY
    All fair points Gelders,

    But NEVER forget how important the little guy is to poker, be it this site, or any other site - without them poker would collapse overnight.

    The big guys like Scotty, Style, Sam1986, Thewy, Melty, DTM, are VERY important, (and the little guys like Matt Bates) but for every one of them, there are any number of one-tablers. Generally, they don't have a voice, never open poker forums, & have never read a strategy piece in their life. But they do a days work, come home, have dinner, put the kids to bed, then play a Tourney, or SNG, just one at a time.  These players are the foundations the poker economy is built upon, so they deserve to be taken account of just as much as the Big Boys.

    Personally, I just can't one table these days, I need more action, but plenty prefer it that way.
  • edited April 2014
    Imo, there should be Synch breaks for all freeroll's / sit and gos

    With the exception of

    1) Games that are expected to finish <1 hour and

    2) Are immediatly before the start of a main event, eg a 7:15 sat for a main event that starts at 8.

    3) If game/ starts at 7:45/7:50, then 1st break should be at 8:55

    It's just so difficult playing some games, then 3 MTT's go on break and the otehr game (freeroll or sit and go) is still running.
  • edited April 2014
    In Response to Re: Sync Breaks - explanation & discussion thread.:
    Semis, such as the £20k Roller Semi that start @ 6pm on Sunday have 7 minute blinds. The players in these EXPECT this to conclude BEFORE the Target Tourney commences @ 8pm. So Sync Breaks are turned off, to avoid the players sitting in late.        Posted by Tikay10
    In this example the tournament is expected to last 2 hours but if it over-runs or finishes on time it might be 3 hours before the person gets a break. Thus, it makes sense to include one break be it even for 3 minutes only after the first hour. 3 minutes out from the tournament is hardly going to affect the finishing time that much? Or if it has to be 5 mins then again 5 minutes still isn't much. Also, if they really don't want it to over-run then why not alter the structure to have 5 min blinds instead? 

    Also, I've heard lots of people mention that sometimes they've been in a tournament that's lasted 4 hours without a break, what's the reason for these not having a break?

    Recreational players are important, yes. I don't know what % of the player pool 1 tables but surely those that are 1 tabling need breaks as well? Obviously they're not going to want a break after 5/10 mins of play but tournaments starting at quarter to the hour could just skip the first break level. But assuming they couldn't just skip a level, then it's still not the end of the world for a rec to have to wait 5 mins as they're usually doing something apart from playing poker which they can just concentrate on instead.

    Most TV shows have adverts - but that doesn't put everyone off from watching TV. (admittedly it does put me off!!) But think of the millions of people that watch X-AD-Factor. A 5 minute break is a mere inconvenience for a recreational player but a lack of 1 is a much bigger inconvenience for a mass multi-tabling rec. So in this instance, I think it's more beneficial to support the mass tabling reg. 
  • edited April 2014
    In Response to Re: Sync Breaks - explanation & discussion thread.:
    In Response to Re: Sync Breaks - explanation & discussion thread. : In this example the tournament is expected to last 2 hours but if it over-runs or finishes on time it might be 3 hours before the person gets a break. Thus, it makes sense to include one break be it even for 3 minutes only after the first hour. 3 minutes out from the tournament is hardly going to affect the finishing time that much? Or if it has to be 5 mins then again 5 minutes still isn't much. Also, if they really don't want it to over-run then why not alter the structure to have 5 min blinds instead?  Also, I've heard lots of people mention that sometimes they've been in a tournament that's lasted 4 hours without a break, what's the reason for these not having a break? Recreational players are important, yes. I don't know what % of the player pool 1 tables but surely those that are 1 tabling need breaks as well? Obviously they're not going to want a break after 5/10 mins of play but tournaments starting at quarter to the hour could just skip the first break level. But assuming they couldn't just skip a level, then it's still not the end of the world for a rec to have to wait 5 mins as they're usually doing something apart from playing poker which they can just concentrate on instead. Most TV shows have adverts - but that doesn't put everyone off from watching TV. (admittedly it does put me off!!) But think of the millions of people that watch X-AD-Factor. A 5 minute break is a mere inconvenience for a recreational player but a lack of 1 is a much bigger inconvenience for a mass multi-tabling rec. So in this instance, I think it's more beneficial to support the mass tabling reg. 
    Posted by F_Ivanovic
    But, Tennis Bloke, that misses the point - the Site has to TRY & look after ALL players. Which is not easy........can you not see that?

    Incidentally, players don't HAVE to be present for every hand of an MTT, they can sit out for a few minutes any time they want. They'll miss an orbit or so, but they'd be just as likely to lose a hand(s) as win a hand(s). 

    If we "Late Reg" by half an hour,  say, we've missed a bunch of Orbits anyway.

    I have no idea if you play Live Poker, but lots of players get up & have a wander around, to stretch their legs, or have a puff, or a wee, every now & then.

    Mr Hellmuth, no less, rarely arrives to take his seat before Level 4. Think of how many hands he misses. Not stopped him winning a dozen bangly things though.
     
    It's good tr have a debate about Sync Breaks, but I think we need to keep it in perspective. Missing a few hands is not the end of the world. IMO, of course. ;) 



  • edited April 2014
    cheers for this TK.


    if possible, could you suggest that the £22+2 sats at 18:15, 19:15, 21:15 etc etc have breaks introduced? 

    they have 10 min blinds and normally get something like 5-10 runners so last 2hrs+... and they prob arent what your average 1 tabling rec would be playing

    its nice to have a proper answer :P


  • edited April 2014
    To be honest I do somewhat agree with you Tikay. I personally v.v.rarely play satellites anyway but I do play cash poker at the same time as tournaments which can be a tad annoying but if I need a break I'll just wait till my BB and sit out on the cash tables. Also, don't know what people usually spend their 5 mins doing but mine is often just to go to the toilet and I could just take my laptop with me if I really didn't want to miss a hand! But if that's not an option for you (maybe you only use your computer to play) or you just don't think you can multi-task that well :P then I agree that missing out on a few hands isn't the end of the world in most instances (late in a sat tho it might be more important to not miss a hand if you are a short stack) - Also 5 mins is still quite a few hands. In live poker you might only miss 1-2 hands at most in a 5 min break!

    That being said I don't think it's the end of the world for a rec player to have to wait 5 mins either. It's not like they're just going to sit at their laptop screen patiently waiting 5 mins - they'll just turn on the TV, browse FB or w/e people like to do! 


  • edited April 2014
    In Response to Re: Sync Breaks - explanation & discussion thread.:
    cheers for this TK. if possible, could you suggest that the £22+2 sats at 18:15, 19:15, 21:15 etc etc have breaks introduced?  they have 10 min blinds and normally get something like 5-10 runners so last 2hrs+... and they prob arent what your average 1 tabling rec would be playing its nice to have a proper answer :P
    Posted by chicknMelt
    Thanks Melty.

    No, but I'll do better than that.

    I'll leave the thread to trundle & chunter along all weekend, then send it up to Peter the Plumber on Tuesday, with a list of all the "could we?" questions.

    I'll summarise each request seperately for him, so it makes is nice & easy for Peter to sort the wheaty stuff from the chaffy stuff.
  • edited April 2014
    In Response to Re: Sync Breaks - explanation & discussion thread.:
    To be honest I do somewhat agree with you Tikay. I personally v.v.rarely play satellites anyway but I do play cash poker at the same time as tournaments which can be a tad annoying but if I need a break I'll just wait till my BB and sit out on the cash tables. Also, don't know what people usually spend their 5 mins doing but mine is often just to go to the toilet and I could just take my laptop with me if I really didn't want to miss a hand! But if that's not an option for you (maybe you only use your computer to play) or you just don't think you can multi-task that well :P then I agree that missing out on a few hands isn't the end of the world in most instances (late in a sat tho it might be more important to not miss a hand if you are a short stack) - Also 5 mins is still quite a few hands. In live poker you might only miss 1-2 hands at most in a 5 min break! That being said I don't think it's the end of the world for a rec player to have to wait 5 mins either. It's not like they're just going to sit at their laptop screen patiently waiting 5 mins - they'll just turn on the TV, browse FB or w/e people like to do! 
    Posted by F_Ivanovic

    Yeah, thats all fair comment, (especially "I agree with you tikay") except the bits that are not fair comment. ;)
  • edited April 2014
    Yeah i think the semi sats at 6pm leading up to the main events should break aswell. All good responses Tikay but i think this from Larson sums it up perfectly.
    'It's just so difficult playing some games, then 3 MTT's go on break and the other game is still running.'

    I can understand some satellites not breaking but i think these semi finals should break.
  • edited April 2014
    In Response to Re: Sync Breaks - explanation & discussion thread.:
    Freerolls These are USUALLY fast-structured, & so don't need Sync Breaks.   If a Freeroll is expected to have a lot of runners, & have a slightly slower structure (such as the i-Pad freerolls), then Sync Breaks may be included.  
    Posted by Tikay10
    The i-pad freerolls have 7min blinds & the last one had 1588 runners & no sync breaks.

  • edited April 2014
    Tikay the last Ipad Air Freeroll I played on 13th April started at 7pm and finished at 10-8 pm with NO BREAKS. I'm usually playing 2 or 3 tourneys at the same time and it's so annoying when one doesn't break. I particularly don't like having to miss hands late on in a tourney when the rewards can be more significant.
  • edited April 2014
    In Response to Re: Sync Breaks - explanation & discussion thread.:
    In Response to Re: Sync Breaks - explanation & discussion thread. : But, Tennis Bloke, that misses the point - the Site has to TRY & look after ALL players. Which is not easy........can you not see that? Incidentally, players don't HAVE to be present for every hand of an MTT, they can sit out for a few minutes any time they want. They'll miss an orbit or so, but they'd be just as likely to lose a hand(s) as win a hand(s).  If we "Late Reg" by half an hour,  say, we've missed a bunch of Orbits anyway. I have no idea if you play Live Poker, but lots of players get up & have a wander around, to stretch their legs, or have a puff, or a wee, every now & then. Mr Hellmuth, no less, rarely arrives to take his seat before Level 4. Think of how many hands he misses. Not stopped him winning a dozen bangly things though.   It's good tr have a debate about Sync Breaks, but I think we need to keep it in perspective. Missing a few hands is not the end of the world. IMO, of course. ;) 
    Posted by Tikay10
    From the multi site multi table players perspective I wont play tournaments that don't have breaks and when they are set up incorrectly it is somewhat frustrating.  

    I know you can miss a few hands but the type of tournaments that we are referring to are short ones (simple tap in for you there!) so the effect of missing a few hands can have a significant effect on the tournament.
  • edited April 2014
    I played a tonne of sats 6 months ago. not the last ukops but the one before it i think, and pretty sure i went 4/5 hours of poker without a break. i respect we have to look after every single player and i 100% back anything that helps the new players, 1 tablers or anything that supports players who play for enjoyment. However certainly in the case of sats, more often than not, people will play more than one sat to get to an event. 

    On any given day reg up a sat for the same mtt between say Noon and 4pm. The majority of the players are the same, the field gets a tad bigger as it goes on i assume from people finnishing work or whatever, maybe you'll lose a couple who've already made it. But over the whole, the vast majority of players remain the same. 

    So over that 4 hours thats a group of people who are the majority of players in those events, who are missing hands, normally in a turbo satelltie structure who don't get a break. The excuse was its designed to last 30-60 mins. Needs to be finished before the target tournament (6pm) which i got, but neither where in any issues, IMO of giving those core players 5 mins break in them. 



  • edited April 2014
    I'd just like to see breaks in all tournaments and sattelites, I can't see it scaring off anyone from playing this site, the only time i ever hear anyone moan about there being a break is when its a final table or very short handed and the tournament is inevitably going to end very soon, so.. (i very much doubt this would ever be possible) but would be an idea, to have a check box on all final tables/stt's where if everyone checks the box then you can skip the break?? just an idea though. No doubt il continue to play on the site even without breaks in the sattelites il just probably end up moaning a lot about it too!
  • edited April 2014
    In Response to Re: Sync Breaks - explanation & discussion thread.:
    I'd just like to see breaks in all tournaments and sattelites, I can't see it scaring off anyone from playing this site, the only time i ever hear anyone moan about there being a break is when its a final table or very short handed and the tournament is inevitably going to end very soon, so.. (i very much doubt this would ever be possible) but would be an idea, to have a check box on all final tables/stt's where if everyone checks the box then you can skip the break?? just an idea though. No doubt il continue to play on the site even without breaks in the sattelites il just probably end up moaning a lot about it too!
    Posted by jordz16
    On other sites you can click a box and when everyone else does the break ends ealy and the mtt resumes. Would be the ultimate button, could be used in short events with less than 18 people left imo. Then this would help people in basically every situation sky says theres not a break in now. 
  • edited April 2014
    I played two sats just before 5pm. First one started at 4:35 and didn't have a break 2nd one started at 4:40 and did have a break. Both for the sky sports bh. Seemed strange to me.
  • edited April 2014
    UKOPS direct
    playing for 1h20
    last 3
    1 seat
    break please

    edit came 2nd - sure i'd have won if i'd had my p break
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