You need to be logged in to your Sky Poker account above to post discussions and comments.
You might need to refresh your page afterwards.
Sky Poker forums will be temporarily unavailable from 11pm Wednesday July 25th.
Sky Poker Forums is upgrading its look! Stay tuned for the big reveal!
Hu sit and go hand, thoughts?
On the surface looks quite boring, but underneath think this is quite an interesting hand.
On the flop, can continuation bet or fold.
Mixing it up a bit decided just to check.
The turn isn't the best of cards. The min bet does look really weak a while back i would always raise these weak bets.
Decided just 2 call. On the river probably should have put out a small value bet, this is probably a mistake, but is pretty thin.
LARSON7Small blind 10.0010.00560.00SHESTEBig blind 20.0030.00410.00 Your hole cards1010 LARSON7Raise 50.0080.00510.00SHESTECall 40.00120.00370.00Flop 6J2 SHESTECheck LARSON7Check Turn K SHESTEBet 20.00140.00350.00LARSON7Call 20.00160.00490.00River 8 SHESTECheck LARSON7Check SHESTEShow58 LARSON7Show1010 LARSON7WinPair of 10s160.00
On the flop, can continuation bet or fold.
Mixing it up a bit decided just to check.
The turn isn't the best of cards. The min bet does look really weak a while back i would always raise these weak bets.
Decided just 2 call. On the river probably should have put out a small value bet, this is probably a mistake, but is pretty thin.
LARSON7Small blind 10.0010.00560.00SHESTEBig blind 20.0030.00410.00 Your hole cards1010 LARSON7Raise 50.0080.00510.00SHESTECall 40.00120.00370.00Flop 6J2 SHESTECheck LARSON7Check Turn K SHESTEBet 20.00140.00350.00LARSON7Call 20.00160.00490.00River 8 SHESTECheck LARSON7Check SHESTEShow58 LARSON7Show1010 LARSON7WinPair of 10s160.00
Comments
Alright Larson, here are my thoughts on the hand.
Pre I think your 3x raise sizing is too large, especially at 20bb eff stacks. A 2x raise will give you more play post ip and removes the problems with balance that a 3x raise would give you. By this I mean that if you are 3x raising your value range, you will have to 3x your bluffing in this situation to remain balanced. 3x raising your bluffing range at these eff stacks is too much to risk. Obviously this only applies to a competent opponent who is taking note of such tendencies.
The flop c/b imo is fine. Not a great deal of value to be gained with the only value coming from 6x/ hearts and floats.
The turn min lead does look weak and it is a high % of the time from my experience on the site. I would expect the normal villains range is this spot to be 6x/Jx/FDs/SDs which we are well ahead as a whole. I would raise to 60 to get value in this spot.
The river as played is a vbet imo. A small bet of around 40-60 to get value from his 6x and potentially rivered 8x hands. There may not be any major value but also factor in that when the opponent folds their air they won’t get to see our hand.
Preflop, defo good to be balanced against some players. I think in the HU sit and go's a lot of the time we can be pretty unbalanced in our range with players that will call with any two pre, which i find hapens a lot in both hypers and turbos.
If it's a tight player, i'll always stick to the one line or if it is a reg.
Post flop, 100% agree with you, as played should have raised turn bet. And certainly as played, should have fired out a small river bet.
------------------------------------------------------
WHat do you think of limping ranges in hypers? Having a part of your range that you limp OTB?
3xing is pretty meh to be honest. even if you are using the sizing to exploit utter fish you can always make up the lost value post flop without losing the advantages of the smaller preflop sizing. in hypers stacks are always set up nicley without having to 3x.
with regard to limping:
100% would advocate having a limping range, i would go as far as saying it is a leak not to have one. you can use limping ranges against the best players as well as average villains and utter droolers. limping has a number of advantages and beneficial side effects. i'll briefly go over some of these so you can design your own limping ranges v different player types:
you can manipulate your other ranges:
by limping monsters, middling hands or trash you can cap, polarise and merge your minraising ranges respectively. these can all be advantageous against certain villians, especially when stacks start to get shallow.
you can play more hands in position:
against passive players you can enter lots of pots and get to act last post flop. by limping you can keep pots very managable against players that dont get out of line post. even very shallow against the right opponents, you can enter more pots in position without having to dilute your minraising or jamming ranges.
against aggro 3bettors you manipulate their risk / reward on jamming over your button action.
if you minraise wide against a loose aggro 3 bettor then he can jam over you profitably with a wide range of hands. i havent got the numbers to hand, but if you are minraising 85% of hands and only calling 22+, A9+, Kj+, QJ then pretty much any two cards can be profitably jammed over your raises.[ if you are 3xing a wide range then the risk reward is even greater for him].
limping achieves two things. one it means you can polarise your minraising range and have proportionally many more hands in your minraising range that want to GII v a 3bet jam. also he has a poor risk reward on jamming over your limp. he has to put his entire stack at risk to win your one BB. so hands that want to see flops in position can be limped and can comfortably call a small isolation raise. if someone jams over your limps then this brings us to:
inducing:
if someone exploits your limping range by jamming wide then limping monsters becomes INSANELY profitable.
lowering variance:
we should always be focused on the ev of an action. if the ev of limping is greater than folding then we should limp and vice versa. however agaisnt the average opponent the ev of limping, minraising and jamming many hands is roughly the same. however limping creates smaller pots and is much lower variance. agaisnt some players we may want to take a lower-variance line if the ev of two actions is pretty similar.
i could go into this more, but will sum up by saying that intelligent, exploitative limping ranges are very profitable, not just in themselves but also in regard to the advantageous manipulation of your minraising and jamming ranges that result.
always adjust to your opponent and his adjustements, always be aware of how changing one range effects your other ranges and dont listen to people who say limping is ALWAYS bad. its summat MTT players struggle with when playing HUSNG's imo. their two sacred mantras are:
thou shall not limp
thou shall only shove or fold <12bb
both of which work wonders in MTT's but are utter pony in HUSNG's
so, yah limp. but do it for a reason and with malicious intent
‘I agree with you Larson though that 3xing here with this hand is good/fine and probably do the same with 88-JJ’.
This I disagree with especially if we are going to have a balanced opening range in this spot. 3x raising our bluffing range at 20bb eff stacks is not good imo. Versus most villains who don’t note such tendancies this will be better than a 2x open, however versus competent villains it will make our pre flop ranges face up if we only limp/2x our bluffing range preflop.
‘Bit confused why turn is a raise but you think flop is a check? Our hand has got worse, not better’.
Yes, but my recommended action is based on the opponent’s turn action and the population tendencies of such action. Do you disagree with range I gave normal villains to have in this spot? Also does calling or raising versus this range give us a higher EV?
3x is bad unless hes a whale, cbetting 100% vs fish and checking bk some % of the time vs fishregs and regs.
Turn could be a raise but if u raise u obv have to check back river otherwise turn raise becomes counter intuitive. Prob just flattin this most of the time as it makes rivers easier to play and keeps his weaker showdown in, meaning he can vbet worse or call a river bet with worse when he checks.
As played id just go like 1/4 pot on the river bc although we're rarely beat he rarely has something to call with either.