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Rake a suggestion

edited May 2014 in Poker Chat
Ok over recent years we've always heard about issues with rake specifically at lower levels. 

Now theres some situations that definately need changing. Minimum pot for example is a must. Ive literally seen a 2p pot raked. (UTG lost everything bar 1p, SB got refunded diff and no one else entered) obviously that meant when the now BB won the hand, they doubled up to yeap 1p. 

So i Suggest minimum rake. 


I would also like to suggest reducing the rake at lower levels from 7.5% to 3%. 

There is also a maximum rake, which could be increased slightly at NL100+ only to make up for this loss to skys income. I believe currently that is £1.80 which doesnt effect too much on a £200 pot. less than 1% actually. So boost that up to £3 shouldn't show too much of a dent to players winrates up there, while making it much more sustainable at the lower levels. I also personally feel like Max rake should be reduced at lower levels but i have no easy solution for that. 


The £5.75 bh's also need rake reduced. 15% rake is too much. Even the £3 bh's only have 10% rake, so why do the £5 ones have 15% (same with the £2 ones). 


I've offered a solution which should help long term maintain a similar income while fixing the amount raked for lower levels. 

Comments

  • edited May 2014
    You are suggesting that increasing the rake at NL100+ by 66% will not be 'too much of a dent to players winrates up there', you can't be serious!
  • edited May 2014
    If they did this they would lose A LOT of mid/high stake regs which is never good for a poker site. I dont see why sky would change the rake for low stake cash players as there are often 20plus tables running at them stakes so if its not broke why would they try and fix it?
  • edited May 2014
    The things i hate most about the low level cash & the reasons i don't play it a lot of cash are the 7.5% rake & the max cap on rake compared to the pot sizes.
    The only pots that actually rake at 7.5% are 40p/80p/£1.20 & so on.Meaning most pots are always being rounded up,meaning small pots are more like 10% & most others are nearer 8-9%.
    Being you very rarely get to a flop heads up the max rake is £1.40.Compare that to max of £1.80 on pot of thousands of pounds it only takes a pot of £18.67 to pay £1.40 which kills profitability for me.
  • edited May 2014
    Yeah good luck with that, if your a low stakes player and want to be raked less, maybe move up stakes?
  • edited May 2014
    Sky's rake/rakeback system is already the worst on the internet at every level including nl100+.

    Suggesting to lower it will no doubt fall on deaf ears anyway.

    The one that makes me laugh is the Russian roulettes, how can you justify raking 10% on a game that literally lasts  one hand?

  • edited May 2014
    I guess the only way to change any of these is to get everyone to boycott the games.

    If the £5.75 BH games went from getting 80+ runners to regularly seeing less than 10 runners then I'm sure Sky would quickly find ways of changing their offering.

    As it is, people will happily / begrudgingly pay that level of rake so why fix something that from the business POV isn't broke?

    Taking a contrary view of the NL100+ tables - I suppose the skill-edge there is so much less than at micro-stakes that 0.5% - 1% extra rake can make a big difference, whereas 7.5% vs the high quantity of recreational players at NL4 should still be easily beatable for a competent player (at least that's what I'm aspiring towards!)
  • edited May 2014
    In Response to Re: Rake a suggestion:
    You are suggesting that increasing the rake at NL100+ by 66% will not be 'too much of a dent to players winrates up there', you can't be serious!
    Posted by Ludacris
    No the rake amount wudnt actually change. Its 5% right. By increasing the maximum on big pots its still less than that. 

    Plus if youve just won a £200 pot are u really going to bump ur gums over £1
  • edited May 2014
    In Response to Re: Rake a suggestion:
    Yeah good luck with that, if your a low stakes player and want to be raked less, maybe move up stakes?
    Posted by alex1229
    I dont mean just for myself. The rake at lower levels prevents so many players moving up. That includes losing players who could filter up much much quicker when they heater. Which is good for higher stake players. 

    Also better for rakeback grinders, think of the points
  • edited May 2014

    'too much of a dent to players winrates up there'

    I cant decide if you are trying to wind higher stakes players up or are you just lacking in intelligence.

    Of course raising the rake to £3 would kill winrates.

    I do agree with you though that 7.5% is too high. I think it should be a 5% or less at all tables.

  • edited May 2014

    something does need to be done but you and I know it wont be anytime soon.

    it is really time to vote with your feet so to speak as I have done. ive moved elsewhere where rake at micro cash is very low (1% at nl4, 3% at nl10 before it flats out at 5% at nl25). you know the idea behind it so wont go into it again but it has defo worked for me.

    im elsewhere, playing and rolled for higher levels than I was here, where im now paying more rake overall because I could move up quicker because I wasn't being strangled by the rake.

    it is a no brainer in my eyes but don't expect it to change here anytime soon

  • edited May 2014
    In Response to Re: Rake a suggestion:
    'too much of a dent to players winrates up there' I cant decide if you are trying to wind higher stakes players up or are you just lacking in intelligence. Of course raising the rake to £3 would kill winrates. I do agree with you though that 7.5% is too high. I think it should be a 5% or less at all tables.
    Posted by ajs4385
    I was attmepting a solution. The point im making is at NL100 the rake is "5%" but on most pots u play less. So increasing the maximum to allow a reduction at lower levels to allow "weaker"players to trickle their way up quicker would be a good thing. 

    Yes you may lose a little extra in the big pots, maybe reduce the rake to 3% in the smaller pots to assist with that for you guys. pretty much the same anyways lol. 

    And i mean this in a good way, surely its better for you to have more weaker players trickling up from NL4-NL10 which then boosts NL20-NL50 which in turn helps boost ur guys stuff. A little more rake to allow more players comming up the limits has to be good imo. 


    Barring adding ante's (for mtts) a re-shape of the rake structure would be massive imo. For the site and the players. 
  • edited May 2014
    In Response to Re: Rake a suggestion:
    In Response to Re: Rake a suggestion : I was attmepting a solution. The point im making is at NL100 the rake is "5%" but on most pots u play less. So increasing the maximum to allow a reduction at lower levels to allow "weaker"players to trickle their way up quicker would be a good thing.  Yes you may lose a little extra in the big pots, maybe reduce the rake to 3% in the smaller pots to assist with that for you guys. pretty much the same anyways lol.  And i mean this in a good way, surely its better for you to have more weaker players trickling up from NL4-NL10 which then boosts NL20-NL50 which in turn helps boost ur guys stuff. A little more rake to allow more players comming up the limits has to be good imo.  Barring adding ante's (for mtts) a re-shape of the rake structure would be massive imo. For the site and the players. 
    Posted by The_Don90
    Max rake at 5% is £1.80 = £36 min pot to pay max .  
  • edited May 2014
    In Response to Re: Rake a suggestion:
    In Response to Re: Rake a suggestion : Max rake at 5% is £1.80 = £36 min pot to pay max .  
    Posted by belsibub
    Yeah so thats my point. At NL4 we have 7.5% rake with a max for £1.50 i think. like a £8 pot we lose like 60p. Where as someone at NL20+ plays a £36 pot or more pay £1.80. 

    Now while i respect their higher up, thats a huge smash on an NL4 players winrate. At NL10 a 200BB pot rakes the max £1.50. Again thats a pretty meaty dent. 

    Where as increasing the max pot even slightly to reduce this at these levels would make a huge differance to players moving up the ladder. Which in turn would actually increase the winrate of these players who pay the slightly higher rake because theres more "weaker" players about. 

    And i don't just mean low stake regs benefit from this. But The weakest of the weakest players will get more back when they heater. We will also lose out on rakeback but higher players will gain on that too. 
  • edited May 2014
    The rake on low stakes cash, bounty hunters and dyms is just dirty.

    The rake on hu hypers at all levels is too high, and the reason I have moved all my volume to anothet site. 

    Ive cashed out here now and doubt ill earn 50 points this month.

    Id echo tintins advice of voting with your feet.
  • edited May 2014
    In Response to Re: Rake a suggestion:
    'too much of a dent to players winrates up there' I cant decide if you are trying to wind higher stakes players up or are you just lacking in intelligence. Of course raising the rake to £3 would kill winrates. I do agree with you though that 7.5% is too high. I think it should be a 5% or less at all tables.
    Posted by ajs4385

    Ever written a post that isn't needlessly rude?



  • edited May 2014

    Also agree that rake at 7.5% is too high but think OP is almost certainly not a 'solution' to the problem

    Think there needs to be more to the solution than simply saying 'let's dump higher rake on the higher limits' and suggesting unrealistic rake changes (7.5% to 3%)

    There needs to be some consideration that Sky will be making far greater money on the higher tables than they are on the low and ultimately they will approach this from a business perspective rather than speculating that money will trickle up to the higher levels,

    What are the business reasons for making these rake changes? As I write this there are 37 nl4 tables running...with the rake changes suggested in the OP there would need to be around 80-90 nl4 tables in order for them to be making the same amount of rake which is completely unrealistic assuming they agree and change rake to 3% from 7.5%

    Considering there are so many tables running why on earth would Sky ever look at this issue and think anything other than 'problem? what problem?'

  • edited May 2014
    This is perhaps a stupid question but I may as well ask it.

    On other sites you have to convert your £s into $s and vice versa, I am pretty sure that this wont be at a favourable rate but I may be wrong (hence the stupidity of the question)

    It might not add up to the rake levels on SKY but does this ever factor into which site to play on. On SKY what you win is what you win or deposit so does the conversion factor ever come into play?
  • edited May 2014
    While i suggested somehting. Many are slating it saying its fine altho agree that theres an issue with 7.5% rake. 

    So while i admit the is an issue with my opening, anyone else wanna suggest something?
  • edited May 2014
    In Response to Re: Rake a suggestion:
    This is perhaps a stupid question but I may as well ask it. On other sites you have to convert your £s into $s and vice versa, I am pretty sure that this wont be at a favourable rate but I may be wrong (hence the stupidity of the question) It might not add up to the rake levels on SKY but does this ever factor into which site to play on. On SKY what you win is what you win or deposit so does the conversion factor ever come into play?
    Posted by dabossman
    Not a stupid question at all, most sites convert at the same rate when you sit/stand up at a table. The place where they get you is depositing/withdrawing. You will always withdraw at a worse rate than you deposited at, some sites are much worse for this than others.
  • edited May 2014
    In Response to Re: Rake a suggestion:
    In Response to Re: Rake a suggestion : No the rake amount wudnt actually change. Its 5% right. By increasing the maximum on big pots its still less than that.  Plus if youve just won a £200 pot are u really going to bump ur gums over £1
    Posted by The_Don90

    You said bump the max from 1.80 to 3.00, that is 1.20 extra so 66% more rake?
  • edited May 2014
    In Response to Re: Rake a suggestion:
    In Response to Re: Rake a suggestion : You said bump the max from 1.80 to 3.00, that is 1.20 extra so 66% more rake?
    Posted by Ludacris
    No thats maximum rake. I also said after reduce the actual rake for u guys to 3% aswell. Currently its 5% but its less on pots worth £38 or more. 

    At most levels that £38 is reached but on the higher levels i imagine 40BB+ pots are reasonably common. 
  • edited May 2014
    lol Ludacris - u make me lol when you oocasionally show up in a thread for a rant!!  And normally its regarding points or rake or promotions. lawls. 

    7.5% is pretty high considering the limping that goes on at sky.  Obv they cant change it as loyalty program would be affected. 

    License to me print money basically. my advice, move up fast or stop withdrawing imo. 

    I'd like to see rake free windows as a promo for say 4nl-20nl 6m tables at certain extremely dead times. Would be sic promo. 
  • edited May 2014
    In Response to Re: Rake a suggestion:
    lol Ludacris - u make me lol when you oocasionally show up in a thread for a rant!!  And normally its regarding points or rake or promotions. lawls.  7.5% is pretty high considering the limping that goes on at sky.  Obv they cant change it as loyalty program would be affected.  License to me print money basically. my advice, move up fast or stop withdrawing imo.  I'd like to see rake free windows as a promo for say 4nl-20nl 6m tables at certain extremely dead times. Would be sic promo. 
    Posted by TPTP123
    That's a great idea. Thumbs up.

    I am echoing all the comments about reducing the rake to something like 3-4%. But if the plan is to keep the 7.5% rake introducing rake free hours would be nice. Probably something like 2am till 10am when the site is quiet. Maybe even start in after midnight to persuade micro stakes players to keep playing.

  • edited May 2014
    Thanks TPTP for suggesting an alternative option. 

    I know my origional suggestion might have been a little off but was a sugestion i thought others would tweek on rather than ridicule. 
  • edited May 2014
    A burning desire

    Tbh watching Wilie really showed me how much i missed MTTs. Its just my game. The issue is, and i mean no disrespect there just not enough mtts on any single site to support it, and i dont have a large enough br to sustain it either. So for now it must stay with NL4 with the odd MTT. However i am considering more so into looking into Mtt staking deals, should the right deal be avalible.

    I've also made huge steps towards improving my mental game. I left several poker groups over the last 24 hours to try and avoid typing rants. Rants which would not only drill in the tilt into my head an make it worse, but when typing them im missing hands and information. Neither is good for us.

    Today i had a mare trying to sleep last night. Missed my full session in the afternoon as a result. I also ended the night session early due to a minor headache.

    However overall the session was a huge improvement. I was running very poorly again. But the rantless session meant i didn't think about it as much and was able to focus on, they won't get there every time and allowed me to also think if i can fold that spot v him in future kind of thing instead.

    In the end i finnished -£3 so less than a buy in loss, altho yet another losing session. Since TOTP i really havent had it easy at all. Which is disappointing but hopefully that will end soon, i am still 20 buy ins up for the month so far, so thats a positive. 

    Onwards and upwards!
  • edited May 2014
    In Response to Re: Rake a suggestion:
    A burning desire Tbh watching Wilie really showed me how much i missed MTTs. Its just my game. The issue is, and i mean no disrespect there just not enough mtts on any single site to support it, and i dont have a large enough br to sustain it either. So for now it must stay with NL4 with the odd MTT. However i am considering more so into looking into Mtt staking deals, should the right deal be avalible. I've also made huge steps towards improving my mental game. I left several poker groups over the last 24 hours to try and avoid typing rants. Rants which would not only drill in the tilt into my head an make it worse, but when typing them im missing hands and information. Neither is good for us. Today i had a mare trying to sleep last night. Missed my full session in the afternoon as a result. I also ended the night session early due to a minor headache. However overall the session was a huge improvement. I was running very poorly again. But the rantless session meant i didn't think about it as much and was able to focus on, they won't get there every time and allowed me to also think if i can fold that spot v him in future kind of thing instead. In the end i finnished -£3 so less than a buy in loss, altho yet another losing session. Since TOTP i really havent had it easy at all. Which is disappointing but hopefully that will end soon, i am still 20 buy ins up for the month so far, so thats a positive.  Onwards and upwards!
    Posted by The_Don90
    Wrong thread perchance? ;)
  • edited May 2014
    In Response to Re: Rake a suggestion:
    In Response to Re: Rake a suggestion : Wrong thread perchance? ;)
    Posted by hhyftrftdr
    Oh god how embarrassing
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