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Optimal play for flush draws 200BB deep
I don't think I've really adjusted to playing stacks this deep and need a lot of work before spending too much more on the master cash tables!
My 3-bet on the flop was too small but I was having connection issues and nearly timed out so went with the amount I'd moved the slider too as opposed to folding / timing out.
Should I be giving more thought to slowing down with draws when this deep - ie call the flop raise and possibly c/c turn or c/f turn (depending on size of bet). Or is it still a reasonable play to GII on the flop with this draw?
As you can see from holding, villain was playing a pretty wide range pre but hadn't been getting too tied to flops post. I'd not seen them at these levels before. Wouldn't have ruled out 63 but would also include A3, sets, 2pr and possibly overpairs in range - ie overcards may not play unless I hit running cards.
Player | Action | Cards | Amount | Pot | Balance |
---|
Shippy1 | Small blind | | £0.05 | £0.05 | £26.78 |
CATCH-22 | Big blind | | £0.10 | £0.15 | £35.53 |
| Your hole cards | | | | |
supercrazy | Fold | | | | |
shakinaces | Raise | | £0.30 | £0.45 | £19.70 |
villain | Call | | £0.30 | £0.75 | £54.20 |
Shippy1 | Call | | £0.25 | £1.00 | £26.53 |
CATCH-22 | Call | | £0.20 | £1.20 | £35.33 |
Flop |
---|
| | | | | |
Shippy1 | Check | | | | |
CATCH-22 | Check | | | | |
shakinaces | Bet | | £0.80 | £2.00 | £18.90 |
villain | Raise | | £2.20 | £4.20 | £52.00 |
Shippy1 | Fold | | | | |
CATCH-22 | Fold | | | | |
shakinaces | Raise | | £3.70 | £7.90 | £15.20 |
villain | All-in | | £52.00 | £59.90 | £0.00 |
shakinaces | All-in | | £15.20 | £75.10 | £0.00 |
villain | Unmatched bet | | £34.50 | £40.60 | £34.50 |
shakinaces | Show | | | | |
villain | Show | | | | |
Turn |
---|
| | | | | |
River |
---|
| | | | | |
villain | Win | Straight to the 6 | £39.20 | | £73.70 |
0 ·
Comments
He can show up with combo draws + 99-QQ which we are ahead of + he can raise/fold 5x 66-88 and we net 29bb with A high.
Flatting flop means we're lost on so many turns.
Hands fine.
In position there's a good argument for calling the raise (and it prob is better) but oop we have to fold too many turns if he bets big enough.
This is true at NL20 200BB deep. Even the wackiest of villians don't shove pair+draw combos here and I have to disagree with 99-QQ. Sure he might call with those hands but vs a 3b otf and still shoving over - range is sets and str8's (albeit a fishy call pre). IMO
Although calling is giving up position and looks a bit drawy we still have 180Bigs behind. We do have options ott whether we hit a club or not and if he has a big hand (which is possible from his actions) and the club comes that doesn't pair the board we can gii with the nuts.
100BB as Craig said it's going in all day, every day. But if we make this play all the time 200BB deep we will lose money over time as we are in more trouble vs his shoving ranges IMO.
Your making too many assumptions, and yes ppl do get it in with worse hands at every stake especially 10nl lol
Your not taking into consideration how much we lose when we flat flop and brick turn, and then if we call turn and brick river.
Your not taking into consideration how much we gain when he folds to our flop 3bet which is going to happen fairly often and how much we lose if we 3b and fold (this is the worst play by a long shot)
Too many of you are looking at the hand from a results POV, we cant control what he does, so we need to work on the basis that we don't know he crams it on the flop.
Your forgetting we can 3b flop, he calls and folds turn = we make money. We 3b flop and he folds = we make money. We 3b flop, he calls we bet bet for value and he calls or bet bet as a bluff and he folds, both times we make money.
So, take all arguments for 3betting and all arguments for flatting and compare them. Don't compare them too what happens in either situation if he jams.
Shakin from now on post your HH without results, and without his 4b. Just post flop action after he raises and ask "what should I do here?"
My argument for flatting has nothing to do with the result. Imo when we block all Axcc and all Kxcc when villain raises this flop his range is going to contain a lot of 2PR/Sets/Straights/CD's. Against a villain like this I don't mind just exploitatively calling with draws and GII the money when we hit.
Obviously 3-betting the flop is never gonna be incorrect here. Imo though flatting is not as lol as your making out considering were 200bb deep.