AK confuses me. Tom MIddletons EPT London exit hand

ShaunyT

I am just watching the coverage from last night/this morning and wondering what people think of This play. 

Blinds are 1500/3000. Middy min raises in the cut off and is called by the button. BB wakes up with QQ and 3 bets to 19.5k. Middy clicks back with a 40k 4bet, button folds BB shoves on him and he calls.

I know it seems fairly standard, but in the past when ive asked advice about playing AK opinions vary. Middy started the hand with 149k stack (nearly 50bb) not too far from the bubble. If he wins the hand he gets a full double up. 

Obviously AK is a very strong hand. If he wins he has a 100bb stack. The downside is he's played for days to get it in with ace high. 

Thoughts???

dazed1

i would imagine he doesnt care about making the money,more concerned with building a stack to make a run at the final table

Lambert180

As above, he is probably more interested in building a stack to go and win it than worrying about bubbling. I didn't see it but I'd imagine the BB is a really good player (most will be in an EPT), there may be some dynamic between the two of them and even if there isn't against very loose aggressive players (like most will be) then AK becomes stronger.

Fwiw, he's NEVER 4betting AK there to fold, he will already know he's snapping it off if he sees a jam.

Telling someone to play AK a certain way in a £5 BH is not likely to mean much when you come to talk about how to play it in an EPT.

ShaunyT

In Response to Re: AK confuses me. Tom MIddletons EPT London exit hand:

As above, he is probably more interested in building a stack to go and win it than worrying about bubbling. I didn't see it but I'd imagine the BB is a really good player (most will be in an EPT), there may be some dynamic between the two of them and even if there isn't against very loose aggressive players (like most will be) then AK becomes stronger. Fwiw, he's NEVER 4betting AK there to fold, he will already know he's snapping it off if he sees a jam. Telling someone to play AK a certain way in a £5 BH is not likely to mean much when you come to talk about how to play it in an EPT.
Posted by Lambert180

oh yeah I get the difference, but the fact remains 3 days play to get it in with A high when you could have called the 3bet and had a 40bb stack left?

Just putting it out there, obviously Middy is a top player and knows what he's doing. Who I am to question. Just food for thought.

FCHD

It's just one of those type hands where if it had happened at a £5 MTT the player would have been accused of over playing his hand, but at an EPT it will be put down to dynamics and playing for the win..

DOHHHHHHH

Probably the most standard hand in the whole tournament?

DoubleAAA

I have 2 words... Dynamics & Range.

F_Ivanovic

In Response to Re: AK confuses me. Tom MIddletons EPT London exit hand:

It's just one of those type hands where if it had happened at a £5 MTT the player would have been accused of over playing his hand, but at an EPT it will be put down to dynamics and playing for the win..
Posted by FCHD

Not really in £5 MTT's you don't get players raising that light or 3-betting that light. So when you raise with AK and get 3-bet you almost always know that a 4bet will just lead to GII there against a range that does well against AK. (JJ+, AK) - AK is a 40% dog. However, in an EPT there's a good chance BB is 3-betting much wider and so 4-betting with AK is going to take down the pot much more often.

ShaunyT

I like to get a good discussion going

I think the thing that gets me is when you start the hand sat on a 50bb stack you are obviously going to raise when you look down at AK. Then if you get 3 bet dynamics and range come in a bit more (DoubleAAA). Conisdering you have invested 2bbs so far, and need to put in an extra 4.5bbs if you call to see the flop, given that you're in position isn't a call the best option? Or is the thinking "if I flop an ace or a king I wont get paid so I might as well get it in" if you put the villain on QQ JJ.

If Middy had called the 3 bet in position and folded to a cbet he would have gotten away with a 43.5bb stack and still being in the tourney. I know I'm been result orientated here, I just think if I played poker for 3 days and lost a flip without a made hand I would be pretty peeved off. Given the fact he wasn't sub 20bb and potentially could have gotten away from it.

jordz16

The only way im folding ak pre with 50bbs is if i think i have a fairly big edge on the field. in a tournament of that quality and at that stage i imagine the edge is minimal

Lambert180

Yes it's just being results orientated and you're giving the villian WAY too tight a range. He doesn't have to be anywhere near as strong as JJ+ to 3b squeeze pre.

AK is a VERY strong hand, especially against loose aggressive opponents, and especially when you have a similar image yourself, and it's CO v the blinds. He could easy be getting AK in pre here against quite a lot of hands that he crushes imo. I hate to use the term but I think this is pretty standard

scotty77

Middy would have been opening most pots.

His opponents 3bet range is gonna be super wide.

Middy knows this and his 4bet range will be equally as wide.

This means his opponent will be 3betting a tonne of worse hands like AT-AQ and prob KQ with the intention of 5bet jamming.

It is quite hard to explain just how aggro Tom Middleton is.

hhyftrftdr

Yeah that hand is very bog standard. Doubt Hitthehole is looking to scrape into the money, probably more concerned with building a stack to run deep with.

Without knowing the guy whatsoever, I still can't imagine he'd ever just call the 3bet and then fold to a single cbet. Just can't see it, not at that level.

The Devilfish hand with AK was much more interesting in my opinion....

I assume your comment was tongue in cheek FCHD.

GaryLaud

What episode was this? Im looking at channel 4's website and it lists the whole lot....

unknown_username

Even if he flated with AK to the 3bet he was against QQ and the flop was 4 Q K ..... All going in regardless....

GaryLaud

In Response to Re: AK confuses me. Tom MIddletons EPT London exit hand:

What episode was this? Im looking at channel 4's website and it lists the whole lot....
Posted by GaryLaud

DW Bout my Q guys, found it now...

CraigSG1

I agree very  standard in an EPT and it's made much easier for him as he has already won one and many other tournies so a standard cash means little. Getting a stack to make a run for the win does.