AA Facing river shove 205bbs deep at £200nl

lJAMESl

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Boonicon	Small blind		£1.00	£1.00	£630.40
Sparce	Big blind		£2.00	£3.00	£200.00
	Your hole cards	A A
triga29	Fold
lJAMESl	Raise		£8.00	£11.00	£411.20
lolufold	Fold
happywild	Call		£8.00	£19.00	£640.83
Boonicon	Fold
Sparce	Fold
Flop
		8 10 8
lJAMESl	Bet		£14.00	£33.00	£397.20
happywild	Raise		£61.00	£94.00	£579.83
lJAMESl	Call		£47.00	£141.00	£350.20
Turn
		5
lJAMESl	Check
happywild	Bet		£105.75	£246.75	£474.08
lJAMESl	Call		£105.75	£352.50	£244.45
River
		3
lJAMESl	Check
happywild	All-in		£474.08	£826.58	£0.00
lJAMESl	???

lJAMESl

I'd like to see what peoples opinions are on this hand. For the record Villain is a regular, loose and is known to spew in bad spots. I will explain my thought process and decision once but first would like to hear other peoples thoughts.

James

FlashFlush

Could he of called with an 8? Well he is on the button so may of wanted to set you up on a bluff and hit the miracle trips.

The way it plays out, on the flop he could be on the flush draw or simply countering your CBet to see if you actualyl have a hand. You only call which says to him Yes I do have something, but im not too sure about it. Then to check the turn is stinking of insecurity and is a bad move for him not to bet out, Personalyl I think im shipping here after his £100 bet on the turn. By calling your only leaving £200 behind (OK thats still 100 blinds) but the pot is now over £350.

The all in bet on the river was pretty standard to your check again I think, personally i'm putting him on A10, K10 or more than likely a busted flush. I bite the bullet and call (Although like I said id be in on the turn) If he has a FH or the 8 then thats pretty sick, but tbh its a pretty dry board for AA and a 4x EP raise.

lJAMESl

Hey mate

If we shove the turn all bluffs fold and we only get called by hands that beat us so thats not an option especially this deep its like a kamikaze with your eyes shut. A10 and K10 he definately checks behind on the river.

Norbit

Well i would say you thought you were ahead on the turn, and letting him hang himself with high f/d by letting him shove river which you wouldnt of got paid if you bet big..

Surely hes raising pre with 10s n up, and i dont think hes raising that big with an 8 on the flop, i would put him on some sort of suited ace.

Im interested to see the final result of this..

Sparce

I prob call the flop and definitely fold the turn. How played i fold the river.

He doesnt play tt like that thats for sure.  I dont think he ships AT on the river as he has showdown equity (problem is James hand looks exactly like what it is so maybe he could try to be pushing him off). 

So riv is to call 225 to win 575. Not terrible odds if he fires turn and riv with missed flush.  But i would still fold riv. I expect to see 78, 89.

Other hands he could have are stuff like j9dd, jqdd, axdd.  Think they r all played similarly deep stack. Its a blow your mind hand!!! arghh. Well played Happy.

phil12uk

He's on button so can def call u wide pre. His reraise on flop is standard vs a c bet and ur call could still poss be AK etc rather than an overpair.  I think when u call the turn he has to then pinpoint ur hand more to the overpair as u aint still gonna fish with overcards (unless they're diamonds). However, Im thinking thats his hand and he has AK / AQ diamonds and knows he needs to shove to hopefully get u off hand. With all that said, I think ur gonna call.

PS as an aside, is this the 1 hand during the week where Lolufold folded?

Seagull158

In Response to AA Facing river shove 205bbs deep at £200nl:

Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance Boonicon Small blind   £1.00 £1.00 £630.40 Sparce Big blind   £2.00 £3.00 £200.00   Your hole cards A A       triga29 Fold         lJAMESl Raise   £8.00 £11.00 £411.20 lolufold Fold         happywild Call   £8.00 £19.00 £640.83 Boonicon Fold         Sparce Fold         Flop     8 10 8       lJAMESl Bet   £14.00 £33.00 £397.20 happywild Raise   £61.00 £94.00 £579.83 lJAMESl Call   £47.00 £141.00 £350.20 Turn     5       lJAMESl Check         happywild Bet   £105.75 £246.75 £474.08 lJAMESl Call   £105.75 £352.50 £244.45 River     3       lJAMESl Check         happywild All-in   £474.08 £826.58 £0.00 lJAMESl ???                                                        
Posted by lJAMESl

He could have called with 88 or A8, couldn't he? Maybe even TT. Then, after the flop he's home and hosed and betting out to take all your money on the river.

zing

Hand is played good I think till turn where you're better off shoving or folding depending on reads.

By c/c turn you have to have a plan already set out in your head on what to do on certain rivers. This is a total blank, if you're flatting the turn not believing, why are you not snapping his river bet off? It's really high variance flatting this turn on this board vs a LAG because they will shove all rivers if they'rehalf decent to keep their ranges wide for later value. What are if you doing if a flush/straight card comes by the way? Check calling? Shoving oop? Check fold?

As played you have to make crying call on river because check calling turn then c/f a total blank river like that is so weak in my view. Your range is blatantly obvious too, you have AQ/AKdd or QQ+ by the pot control flat of his raise on flop and check call on turn, so your image is mighty important too as to whether he thinks you're a folding station/calling station and how you play your flush draws in deep pots as to whether he fires a 3rd barrel with nothing.

So unless you got perfect reads on the kid and know he doesn't 3 barrel bluff total blanks this should be one of your main thinking points.

jakally

Tough spot James.

If I call the turn, I think I call the river.

All combo draws bet the river, and if he has played TPGK / 99 this way, it's not impossible he could turn it into a bluff.

His flop raise is quite big, which it would be if he was raising a draw.

Not happy getting 200 bigs in, in this spot, but not dead comfortable with laying this down to Happy either.

offshoot

fold James, i call here all the time and im never right lol.

But in all seriousness its pretty easy to assume your opponent is always a sicko whose gonna exploit you if you fold aces in this spot but its rarely the case. Seems like his betsizing is more condusive to getting you to call the turn because that means you have to call off the rest on most rivers. Also he would probably bet more on turn with combo draws/NFD so he can give himself better odds on calling if you shove. 

I think if hes betting that size on the turn with draws its to save money when the river blanks more so than to set up a river bluff. Also he definitely checks back more than 0% of the time when he misses even though he probably shouldnt, that should probably factor in somewhere.

i think his flop raise is big because youre 200bbs deep and he wants to get all the money in.

Prob 100% wrong but just my thoughts.

also if you call the river with AA do you call with 77? Ace high?

Spike2120

Looking at it neutrally if he had something you have got to assume he it after the flop so pocket 5's and 3's are irrelevant, possible and seriously unlucky, but just looking at the cards your looking at either at least one 8 in his hand or possibly a 10, perhaps pockets, or there is the flush possibility, calling that one down to see another card is fine. After the turn comes up what we could possibly assume is a blank and he bets out aggressively I would be considering my actions here, would he shut up shop if he had missed the flush draw and be playing it so aggressively I would have felt it would have been perhaps a smaller bet so there I would be looking at an 8 or pocket 10s unless he believes he has top pair and doesnt believe you have a strong hand in which just a single 10 could cause him to bet. Either way on the turn I feel that if you call your pot committed and I would be entitled to have folded there as it looks like he has a set.

By the time you get the river most of your money is in the middle I feel its just a call now your basically pot committed folding now will leave you well not short but not healthy with your chip stack and make it hard work to come back, if up to now you have felt he is playing a bluff on you follow through as that 3 is a nothing card.

Obviously I have done that from a neutral perpective obviously like you said you had prior knowledge that he was being loose and aggressive so it is possible that he could have been trying to bet out on you, but if i had been in your shoes I am looking at if not folding the flop definitely folding the turn before it gets too expensive to fold if this exact thing happens and you feel your beat.

Spike2120

lJAMESl

Ok I picked up a few things in the hand that I think Happy gave away.
I'm not going to comment on them too much because he may read this forum and we don't want to improve the regs too much :-D. I was pretty certain Happy had a combo draw his range being this j9dd/79dd/76dd/75dd/A5dd he could also have 87 suited or 89 suited here but I didn't believe him through various tells he gave away in the hand which I'm not going to post but some you have worked out. I did feel the turn may of helped his hand a little by his bet size but when I checked on the river I expected him to give up alot of the time but he is known to make bad bluffs in bad spots imo .

I of course called and he showed...

Nutter5932

AA

lJAMESl

For some reason I can't get the hand history getting a timed out error on the page everytime, but he showed 76dd for the FD + gutter on the flop and turned Open ended straight draw.

Nutter5932

I think it might be something to do with the hand being over 2 weeks old ?

When we was all requested for TP hands they needed to be 2 weeks previous. Nice call though

lJAMESl

Posted up a new hand for people to look at, will be happy to do a few a week if people enjoy them.

LadyFingrs

call bro