Squeeeeeeeeeeeze

Matt237

One of the things i've gotten alot better with is sizing but how much do you size a squeeze here?

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
B	Small blind		40.00	40.00	9825.00
Matt237	Big blind		80.00	120.00	12260.00
	Your hole cards	J J
blue1970	Raise		160.00	280.00	12075.00
BIGBAZZA7	Call		160.00	440.00	17095.00
A	Call		160.00	600.00	23215.00
harold93	Call		160.00	760.00	6955.00
B	Call		120.00	880.00	9705.00
Matt237	Raise		1160.00	2040.00	11100.00
blue1970	Fold
BIGBAZZA7	Fold
A	Call		1080.00	3120.00	22135.00
harold93	Fold
B	Call		1080.00	4200.00	8625.00
Flop
		2  9 4
B	All-in		8625.00	12825.00	0.00
Matt237	All-in		11100.00	23925.00	0.00
A	Call		11100.00	35025.00	11035.00
B	Show	9 3
Matt237	Show	J J
A	Show	6 6

THEROCK573

looks ok sizing to me, id go smaller against a thinking player who actually knows u are capable of a squeeze or even knows what one is for that matter to give him chance to 4bet a worse hand.

Matt237

In Response to Re: Squeeeeeeeeeeeze:

looks ok sizing to me, id go smaller against a thinking player who actually knows u are capable of a squeeze or even knows what one is for that matter to give him chance to 4bet a worse hand.
Posted by THEROCK573

Yeah this hand for instance they're all lower stake recs so decided to go big big. I mean you saw what they called me with lol. 

Often face squeeze spots with 2-3 callers but never really took off in a family pot. Comfortable with post flop aggro etc just the pre flop size sometimes gets me and i tend to end up going too big.

THEROCK573

In Response to Re: Squeeeeeeeeeeeze:

In Response to Re: Squeeeeeeeeeeeze : Yeah this hand for instance they're all lower stake recs so decided to go big big. I mean you saw what they called me with lol.  Often face squeeze spots with 2-3 callers but never really took off in a family pot. Comfortable with post flop aggro etc just the pre flop size sometimes gets me and i tend to end up going too big.
Posted by Matt237

suppose you can never go to big on this site to be honest :-)

craigcu12

where the table is recs i might go for a bet size more like around 560 with JJ and QQ.
you know they are very loose callers Axo  Kxs Qxs, your out of position too, so the last thing you would want to see coming is a picture or A. the problem that gives is now your left questiong weather or not he will hold the ace and if not would he call so you check and they do the crazy min betting.

hhyftrftdr

Playing very deep, so yeah I'd go for a chunky raise. As Rocky said though, if we have a decent player amongst them lot then we could go smaller to try and induce something.

FWIW, I think I might pass the flop donk jam. Sounds ridiculous I know. But I'd hazard a guess your edge on this table was significant. Generally we're gonna be slightly ahead or massively behind.

Just when you think nothing on sky can shock you.....66 cold calls behind vs 2 all ins....and its not even a BH!

Matt237

In Response to Re: Squeeeeeeeeeeeze:

where the table is recs i might go for a bet size more like around 560 with JJ and QQ. you know they are very loose callers Axo  Kxs Qxs, your out of position too, so the last thing you would want to see coming is a picture or A. the problem that gives is now your left questiong weather or not he will hold the ace and if not would he call so you check and they do the crazy min betting.
Posted by craigcu12

Think thats a bit small, ideally want this heads up or 3 way at a max. 

THEROCK573

In Response to Re: Squeeeeeeeeeeeze:

In Response to Re: Squeeeeeeeeeeeze : Think thats a bit small, ideally want this heads up or 3 way at a max. 
Posted by Matt237

i was meaning around 880 to 960, not what craig said :-)

Matt237

In Response to Re: Squeeeeeeeeeeeze:

Playing very deep, so yeah I'd go for a chunky raise. As Rocky said though, if we have a decent player amongst them lot then we could go smaller to try and induce something. FWIW, I think I might pass the flop donk jam. Sounds ridiculous I know. But I'd hazard a guess your edge on this table was significant. Generally we're gonna be slightly ahead or massively behind. Just when you think nothing on sky can shock you.....66 cold calls behind vs 2 all ins....and its not even a BH!
Posted by hhyftrftdr

Normally i would but vs this particular villain it wasn't an opportunity to be missed. But as you say the cold call is just brilliant. The run out was 9 and 6 too :-D

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: Squeeeeeeeeeeeze:

In Response to Re: Squeeeeeeeeeeeze : Normally i would but vs this particular villain it wasn't an opportunity to be missed. But as you say the cold call is just brilliant. The run out was 9 and 6 too :-D
Posted by Matt237

Fair enough sir. I did something similar in the infamous 200 runner Rainman, right on the bubble. Called off a huge 3bet shove vs a certain player, too good a spot to not amass chips. He had the goods this one time, sigh

Edit- apologies, doing you a disservice there Matt! You got it in good and lost, I just got it in bad and it stayed bad

MattBates

In Response to Re: Squeeeeeeeeeeeze:

Playing very deep, so yeah I'd go for a chunky raise. As Rocky said though, if we have a decent player amongst them lot then we could go smaller to try and induce something. FWIW, I think I might pass the flop donk jam. Sounds ridiculous I know. But I'd hazard a guess your edge on this table was significant. Generally we're gonna be slightly ahead or massively behind. Just when you think nothing on sky can shock you.....66 cold calls behind vs 2 all ins....and its not even a BH!
Posted by hhyftrftdr

If we are folding on this flop is the squeeze not then bad as I can see a donk jam happening a lot?

F_Ivanovic

In Response to Re: Squeeeeeeeeeeeze:

In Response to Re: Squeeeeeeeeeeeze : If we are folding on this flop is the squeeze not then bad as I can see a donk jam happening a lot?
Posted by MattBates

Yeah agree with Matt - Squeezing this hand is horrible if we are even considering folding on a flop like this. If we want to play small ball because the table is so bad then just flat pre-flop.

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: Squeeeeeeeeeeeze:

In Response to Re: Squeeeeeeeeeeeze : If we are folding on this flop is the squeeze not then bad as I can see a donk jam happening a lot?
Posted by MattBates

You really think people will often donk jam this flop for twice the pot size or thereabouts?

jordz16

In answer to the OP id be squeezing to between 800-950 unless i knew one of them was calling any bet in which case i guess anything up to 1,500 would be fine.

deadeyed

with that many callers to the initial opener i like to squeeze big so i think your sizing is fine here, if they call you with the likes of 93 then why not charge them the max.....looks like a juicy loose tourney anyway :-)

MattBates

In Response to Re: Squeeeeeeeeeeeze:

In Response to Re: Squeeeeeeeeeeeze : You really think people will often donk jam this flop for twice the pot size or thereabouts?
Posted by hhyftrftdr

At lower stakes yes

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: Squeeeeeeeeeeeze:

In Response to Re: Squeeeeeeeeeeeze : At lower stakes yes
Posted by MattBates

Fair enough!

Obviously with the squeeze and the callers, it means we are playing a large pot whether we like it or not. Don't think this necessarily means we have to get it all in on a low board, but yeah vs most lower stake randoms JJ is gonna be ahead a lot of the time.

From OP's comments, sounds like it was a great spot to accumulate chips vs that certain player, just got a tad unlucky

F_Ivanovic

Regardless of a donk jam being likely or not, what flop are you hoping to see when you squeeze with JJ? This is the best flop we can hope for! Folding should not enter our mind - if it does, then as Matt says play the small ball approach and flat pre. This isn't a bad option - against terrible players they'll likely pay off if we hit a set and we can get some value on favourable boards too as long as we are capable of folding if it looks like we're behind.

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: Squeeeeeeeeeeeze:

Regardless of a donk jam being likely or not, what flop are you hoping to see when you squeeze with JJ? This is the best flop we can hope for! Folding should not enter our mind - if it does, then as Matt says play the small ball approach and flat pre. This isn't a bad option - against terrible players they'll likely pay off if we hit a set and we can get some value on favourable boards too as long as we are capable of folding if it looks like we're behind.
Posted by F_Ivanovic

You always snap off a donk shove for almost 110bb in this spot after 3betting pre? I'd possibly pass vs some players, but then vs them I might play it a bit more cautiously.

Agree about peeling sometimes, disguises us nicely but would need to be played in a disciplined manner.

Matt237

In Response to Re: Squeeeeeeeeeeeze:

Regardless of a donk jam being likely or not, what flop are you hoping to see when you squeeze with JJ? This is the best flop we can hope for! Folding should not enter our mind - if it does, then as Matt says play the small ball approach and flat pre. This isn't a bad option - against terrible players they'll likely pay off if we hit a set and we can get some value on favourable boards too as long as we are capable of folding if it looks like we're behind.
Posted by F_Ivanovic

Pretty much this. When those cards came down i was never ever folding here, Donk jam just made it easier for me.

I agree with the bit in bold but these players really were quite bad, and i think i get much more value squeezing and being heads up/3 way vs a 6 way pot.

Thanks for the input everyone appreciate it.

F_Ivanovic

In Response to Re: Squeeeeeeeeeeeze:

In Response to Re: Squeeeeeeeeeeeze : You always snap off a donk shove for almost 110bb in this spot after 3betting pre? I'd possibly pass vs some players, but then vs them I might play it a bit more cautiously. Agree about peeling sometimes, disguises us nicely but would need to be played in a disciplined manner.
Posted by hhyftrftdr

How is it different calling off a donk shove and bet/turn shove ourselves or bet/calling it off? Either way when we build a pot that has a SPR of 2 we should not want to be giving up on the pot it's irrelevant that it's another 110bb's - there is a ton of money in already and because of this bad villains will be prepared to get it in with almost any pair here. And if they aren't - and are only GII with sets and NFD's etc but still calling pf really wide then squeeszing/c-betting with a really wide value range is going to be immensely profitable.

99% of the time I face a donk shove holding an overpair I'll snap it off though - Most of the time I find myself against 9x, sometimes a FD and occasionally a worse pair. In rare occurences I'll see another overpair (usually 99-QQ that didn't want to get it in pre against AK) and I would almost never expect to be up against a set. JJ does great vs that range. Well more than the equity we need to make a very +ev call.