Have bounty hunters warped peoples sense of playing poker?

ShaunyT

I'll just start by saying I am not talking about the financial side of things. People pay the same amount and can do what they like. Also I am not talking about the aggressor in a hand but the callers.

I was just wondering what people thought. I play most of my poker at fairly low stakes (£3-£11), I play the odd main event and have once played a £55 bounty hunter (finished 2nd-cheeky brag lol). Sometimes it astounds me at what people will call off all, or most of their stack with, even when really deep. Bearing in mind when talking about low stakes it isn't as if the head prize is even worth having! At higher stakes where somebodies head could be worth£100 that may factor in to odds to call but at low stakes I don't think this applies, especially if you have 50-100bb.
 Even when play progresses throughout a tournament, players on sky seem to have a "play for stacks" attitude whenever they get involved in a hand, regardless of stack sizes. They just don't seem to have a concept of pot control or value betting.

This isn't a rant (if it seems that way) I was merely pondering the point of the title.


Whadaya think???

splashies

It's great innit

jordz16

The fact people often over value the bounties is the only reason that playing Bounty hunters is profitable. The every day recreational player generally enjoys the instant reward for knocking out a player as opposed to foucusing on winning the tournament itself.. Also Mid way through Bounty Hunters the bounty aspect can make it worth taking flips that you wouldnt take in a standard freezeout... Id nearly always Call off a shove with 2 overs and a flush draw if i have the player covered in a BH but I doubt id ever do it in a Freezeout unless im getting a great price.

mrsduck

Yep I do crazy stupid things with stupid cards in almost every bounty hunter!
I just like to see the BOUNTY HUNTER ripple writing across my face, (on the old tables) it makes me feel smug hahahaha!!

F_Ivanovic

Playing at higher stakes compared to lower stakes doesn't change anything - the prize pool is still split equally and although a head at higher stakes could be worth £100 in a £55BH but a head might be worth £10 in a £5.50BH.... which is just as 'appealing'

In general the correct strategy in a BH is to for the most part ignore the bounties although there are some exceptions. Early on in the tournament, winning a bounty is a lot more significant than later on in the tournament. This is because later on in the tournament your chance of cashing goes up, so the value of bounties decreases (except if the bounty you get is from someone with a really big head prize) - If you get into a situation that's close to BE, then the potential of a bounty makes it worth taking - and especially so if you are a healthy chip stack and it won't effect your tournament that much. eg. You double up early on to a 4000 stack and then someome with a 300 stack goes all in - now this is worth chasing after and as such ranges from everyone will be wider. I see some people making "big mistakes" though, like seeing any ace or any pair and going all in to isolate the short stack without factoring in the fact that someone behind them could wake up with a big hand. In general though you can and should be willing to go to war against someone that reshoves over a short stack if you have a hand that dominates their range - eg. TT might normally be a fold, but here it's an easy re-shove!

The second situation where winning a bounty is useful is again near the start of a tournament but this time you are a relatively short stack and another short stack goes all in. This is often a great spot for you unless the short stack has a really tight range - you should be willing to get it in with a wider range. Your stack size as it is dictates it's unlikely you will cash so you want to really get some of your entry fee back. If you can take out the short stack that then that's great. Another point is at least one other player will want to get involved to take out 2 bounties. So instead of doubling up where you still might be short - you could treble up WITH a bounty and be right back in the game. This can also apply to later on in tournaments depending on how short you are because it might be your best chance to get back into it.

Chris_Mc

In Response to Re: Have bounty hunters warped peoples sense of playing poker?:

Playing at higher stakes compared to lower stakes doesn't change anything - the prize pool is still split equally and although a head at higher stakes could be worth £100 in a £55BH but a head might be worth £10 in a £5.50BH.... which is just as 'appealing' In general the correct strategy in a BH is to for the most part ignore the bounties although there are some exceptions. Early on in the tournament, winning a bounty is a lot more significant than later on in the tournament. This is because later on in the tournament your chance of cashing goes up, so the value of bounties decreases (except if the bounty you get is from someone with a really big head prize) - If you get into a situation that's close to BE, then the potential of a bounty makes it worth taking - and especially so if you are a healthy chip stack and it won't effect your tournament that much. eg. You double up early on to a 4000 stack and then someome with a 300 stack goes all in - now this is worth chasing after and as such ranges from everyone will be wider. I see some people making "big mistakes" though, like seeing any ace or any pair and going all in to isolate the short stack without factoring in the fact that someone behind them could wake up with a big hand. In general though you can and should be willing to go to war against someone that reshoves over a short stack if you have a hand that dominates their range - eg. TT might normally be a fold, but here it's an easy re-shove! The second situation where winning a bounty is useful is again near the start of a tournament but this time you are a relatively short stack and another short stack goes all in. This is often a great spot for you unless the short stack has a really tight range - you should be willing to get it in with a wider range. Your stack size as it is dictates it's unlikely you will cash so you want to really get some of your entry fee back. If you can take out the short stack that then that's great. Another point is at least one other player will want to get involved to take out 2 bounties. So instead of doubling up where you still might be short - you could treble up WITH a bounty and be right back in the game. This can also apply to later on in tournaments depending on how short you are because it might be your best chance to get back into it.
Posted by F_Ivanovic

yep this is exactly what I would've wrote.

glad you saved me the time lol.

Great post  too take on board I seem too struggle with bounty hunters as too reguler tournaments.

id like too play the mains and the 9pm one but dont feel confiedent in my game with them at the minute.

GaryQQQ

Yes, which is good news. The more warped they play the better the games. Just learn how to adapt to the common player types, makes tons of notes, and watch the profits come in.

I love the Bounty Hunters, great fun and profitable. For the most part I ignore the head-prizes and play to win the tournament. By far the most common mistake I see being made by others is reckless gambling to win head-prizes, particularly in the early stages. It's frustrating when they get there, but you have to take it on the chin and remember you profit off these guys in the long run. It's very important the bad players win sometimes, it keeps them in the games. We don't want them to lose all their money quickly and quit permanently.

As explained by F Ivanovich there are exceptions. I had a classic example yesterday at a £5.75 final table. Last to act on the BB I was facing a 4.2BB shove from UTG looking down at junk. In a freeze-out you could just about argue for a fold, needing to call 3.2BB to win 5.7BB when you know you're behind 100% of the time. However this villain had a prize of £8.02 on his head making it a no-brainer call with any two cards.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
mutley01	Small blind		1000.00	1000.00	30275.14
GaryQQQ	Big blind		2000.00	3000.00	53351.96
	Your hole cards	9 4
TAFFBFG	All-in		8406.58	11406.58	0.00
roddaz75	Fold
REDARROW61	Fold
mutley01	Fold
GaryQQQ	Call		6406.58	17813.16	46945.38
GaryQQQ	Show	9 4
TAFFBFG	Show	A 8
Flop
		8 6 7
Turn
		10
River
		J
GaryQQQ	Win	Straight to the Jack	17813.16		64758.54

ShaunyT

Yeah I agree with all points made and I know GaryQQQ is a bh reg (I seems to remember you running your 77 into my AA not too long ago- another cheeky brag lol) I was just wondering if people thought the bounty hunter mentality leaks into other types of tournament, and if some of the fundamentals of poker are lost when all people see is a head prize

unknown_username

In Response to Re: Have bounty hunters warped peoples sense of playing poker?:

Yeah I agree with all points made and I know GaryQQQ is a bh reg (I seems to remember you running your 77 into my AA not too long ago- another cheeky brag lol) I was just wondering if people thought the bounty hunter mentality leaks into other types of tournament, and if some of the fundamentals of poker are lost when all people see is a head prize
Posted by ShaunyT

this hand will help to confuse the issue, I was at the table although not involved...

Player A has roughly 7500 chips and shoves from the button (there was no other betting before that)
 
Player B Small blind has slightly more chips and calls.....

Player C Big blind has 4300 chips and also calls

cards are turned over... Player A shows kk, Player B shows aa, Player C shows ........ 2 3 of hearts

can't remember the cards the fell (I'm writing this from memory) but player C wins on the river with a flush...

Player B obviously more than a little annoyed says htf can you call two shoves with a 2 and a 3

I though Players C's response was a gem...... he said "cus I might win"

go figure......

hhyftrftdr

How many you won now GaryQQQ?

Lost count.

DESERTTURK

In Response to Re: Have bounty hunters warped peoples sense of playing poker?:

It's great innit
Posted by splashies

yeah in a normal game i would never call all ins with garbage but in a BH i just cant help myself 156k with 72 im in ship the BOUNTY.........................

a00rock

Yes.