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England loss to Uruguay is not so bad...

edited June 2014 in The Football Corner


There is a consoling line of thought that helps.  Had Suarez not scored that second goal, or had England scored again, it is really of little consequence.  Here's why...


Italy must beat Costa Rica, that hasn't changed
England must beat Costa Rica, that hasn't changed

We don't want Italy in position not to care about losing to Uruguay on Tuesday.
Uruguay now with 3 points have to beat Italy on Tuesday, yet this could see Italy eliminated
Uruguay with 1 point (had England drawn last night) could not eliminate Italy
So now Uruguay v Italy is a crucial game for both.

Had England drawn, Tuesday would be of little importance for Italy, who might wish to lose to miss Brazil and/or The Netherlands in the quarter-finals.

So, it's quite good we didn't score a late equaliser.



 
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Comments

  • edited June 2014


    Optimum score is Italy 2 - 0 Costa Rica

    1-0 means that England must score two goals more than Costa Rica on Tuesday
    2-0 means that England needs any win versus Costa Rica


    Uruguay has three risks; losing the game, only scoring 1 more goal than Italy and playing for a draw.

    Italy has one risk; losing the game versus Uruguay by 2 or more goals.




     
  • edited June 2014
    or Italy could draw with costa rica tonight and we're out. At least if we had equalized it would be in our hands. Although when we cant even beat a very poor Uruguay side we deserve nothing anyway.
  • edited June 2014
    Like the optimism but you're clutching at straws. Agree with shauny, we've been beaten by two pretty average teams who haven't even had to play that well to beat us, so we don't deserve to be going through.
  • edited June 2014
    In Response to Re: England loss to Uruguay is not so bad...:
    or Italy could draw with costa rica tonight and we're out. At least if we had equalized it would be in our hands. Although when we cant even beat a very poor Uruguay side we deserve nothing anyway.
    Posted by ShaunyT
    The differances where small but noticeable. 

    Sturridge - missed 2 great chances

    Rooney - Missed 2 out of 3 great chances. 


    Jagielka didnt defend well. 

    Suarez had 2 chances, scored 2 goals. 


  • edited June 2014
    Changes everything.

    Italy could take 2 0-0's and cruise into the next round now.
  • edited June 2014


    my point is that losing last night is not so bad, as drawing is pretty much the same.  so don't be down about losing. 

    being positive, assuming that italy will beat CR, we are in a better position, perversely, as neither Italy or Uruguay are playing risk free.  there is still no scoreline that secures both their places in the next round.



  • edited June 2014
    In Response to Re: England loss to Uruguay is not so bad...:
    my point is that losing last night is not so bad, as drawing is pretty much the same.  so don't be down about losing.  being positive, assuming that italy will beat CR, we are in a better position, perversely, as neither Italy or Uruguay are playing risk free.  there is still no scoreline that secures both their places in the next round.
    Posted by aussie09
    It would be in our own hands if we drew.  We would just have to beat Costa Rica and hope Italy didn't lose heavily.

    Now, we need Italy to win in a game where they will probably rest players.  Espeically if they see England are winning at HT they will just be loving life with no injuries and not be too worried about the result. 
  • edited June 2014
    In Response to Re: England loss to Uruguay is not so bad...:
    In Response to Re: England loss to Uruguay is not so bad... : It would be in our own hands if we drew.  We would just have to beat Costa Rica and hope Italy didn't lose heavily. Now, we need Italy to win in a game where they will probably rest players.  Espeically if they see England are winning at HT they will just be loving life with no injuries and not be too worried about the result. 
    Posted by 1267

    the longer the score remains 0-0 in the England game the better.  the pressure will grow on Uruguay and/or Italy to score.  it will be a waiting game for us, scoring after the 90th minute would help.



     
  • edited June 2014
    In Response to Re: England loss to Uruguay is not so bad...:
    In Response to Re: England loss to Uruguay is not so bad... : the longer the score remains 0-0 in the England game the better.  the pressure will grow on Uruguay and/or Italy to score.  it will be a waiting game for us, scoring after the 90th minute would help.  
    Posted by aussie09
    So youve gone from 'little consequence' (opening post) to, we must now score late on and results must go our way.  When if we drew we would just to need win.

    Italy know that a 0-0 draw would be absolutely fine regardless, will be no pressure on them to score.
  • edited June 2014
    Love the optimism Rob, I'm in the same boat.

    Where there's hope...

    As for the point made above about Italy loving it in the third game at half-time if it looks like England are going out, why? Based on the evidence so far, I'd want England to go through if I was Italy. Uruguay are a much more dangerous team with Suarez on board now and you want the big hitters to fall away and the weaker teams to progress.

    Pedigree counts for nothing, look at Spain. England are one of the second tier teams these days so why wouldn't Italy want us to go through at the expense of Uruguay?

    Let's just hope the Italians thrash Costa Rica today and demoralise them ready for us.
  • edited June 2014
    Apparently Ballotelli wants a kiss from the Queen if he scores the winner.

    Pucker up ma'am :-)
  • edited June 2014
    In Response to Re: England loss to Uruguay is not so bad...:
    Love the optimism Rob, I'm in the same boat. Where there's hope. As for the point made about Italy loving it in the third game at half-time if it looks like England are going out, why? Based on the evidence so far, I'd want England to go through if I was Italy. Uruguay are a much more dangerpoius team with Suarez on board now and you want the big hitters to fall away and the weaker teams to progress. Predigree counts for nothing, look at Spain. England are one of the second tier teams these days so why wouldn't Italy want us to go through at the expense of Uruguay. Just hope the Italians thrash Costa Rica today and demoralise them ready for us.
    Posted by RICHORFORD
    Italy couldn't meet either team again untill the final, so they really wouldn't be bothered.

    Would be stupid for Italy to go gung-ho and risk their top players getting suspened/injured when they know a draw tops the group (assuming they win today).

    Obviously as an England fan i am optimistic that not only will Italy thrash Costa Rica tonight, that we will then score plenty past Costa Rica, keep a clean sheet and build confidence.   Also praying that Italy do make changes and these players do everything they can in the final game to try and get into the starting x11 therefore beating Uruguay.

    But to suggest that Losing yesterday makes little difference then drawing is Ludicrous.    
  • edited June 2014
    In Response to Re: England loss to Uruguay is not so bad...:
    In Response to Re: England loss to Uruguay is not so bad... : So youve gone from 'little consequence' (opening post) to, we must now score late on and results must go our way.  When if we drew we would just to need win. Italy know that a 0-0 draw would be absolutely fine regardless, will be no pressure on them to score.
    Posted by 1267

    incorrect.  you need to read the thread again to understand better.

    this thread is all about those who were disappointed by suarez's second goal, or those wishing we had scored a late equaliser.  there would be little added benefit.  we needed to win.  so it is consoling to realise that our chances have not been diminished too much.  we still have a chance, and perversely, the situation has improved in one respect, that is there is no scoreline which suits both Italy and Uruguay whilst they do not know the outcome of the England game.

    you can be miserable about england, that's your choice.   alternatively you can chose to see the opportunity that we have open to us.


  • edited June 2014
    In Response to Re: England loss to Uruguay is not so bad...:
    In Response to Re: England loss to Uruguay is not so bad... : Italy couldn't meet either team again untill the final, so they really wouldn't be bothered. Would be stupid for Italy to go gung-ho and risk their top players getting suspened/injured when they know a draw tops the group (assuming they win today). Obviously as an England fan i am optimistic that not only will Italy thrash Costa Rica tonight, that we will then score plenty past Costa Rica, keep a clean sheet and build confidence.   Also praying that Italy do make changes and these players do everything they can in the final game to try and get into the starting x11 therefore beating Uruguay. But to suggest that Losing yesterday makes little difference then drawing is Ludicrous.    
    Posted by 1267
    Really good shout. This is probably our best bet of getting an Italian victory over Uruguay.

    Just hope we're all still talking about these possibilities at 6.45pm this evening.
  • edited June 2014
    In Response to Re: England loss to Uruguay is not so bad...:
    In Response to Re: England loss to Uruguay is not so bad... : incorrect.  you need to read the thread again to understand better. this thread is all about those who were disappointed by suarez's second goal, or those wishing we had scored a late equaliser.  there would be little added benefit.  we needed to win.  so it is consoling to realise that our chances have not been diminished too much.  we still have a chance, and perversely, the situation has improved in one respect, that is there is no scoreline which suits both Italy and Uruguay whilst they do not know the outcome of the England game. you can be miserable about england, that's your choice.   alternatively you can chose to see the opportunity that we have open to us.
    Posted by aussie09
    I'm not miserable about England. I see can the oppurtunity.  I'm stupid enough to believe that we will go through, and go on and win it ....

    But if we did score late on, and draw. We would just need to beat Costa Rica to gurantee qualification (assuming italy win) , now we need to win and hope Uruguay lose.  This is a massive massive difference.  This is why the whole nation was asolutely gutted last night. 
    A late goal, or Suarez not scoring would have been MASSIVE for us.
  • edited June 2014
    Not to mention, that if Italy do draw tonight, we are now out.   little consequence though ?
  • edited June 2014


    remember too that on monday, before our group games are played, Italy will know where Brazil and The Netherlands will be placed. 

    It might be that losing the game against Uruguay means that Italy will avoid them in the quarter-finals and be drawn to play a lesser team instead. 

    However, now that there is a risk of being eliminated in the Uruguay game they cannot manipulate the result without knowing our game result. 

    One consequence of losing (and not drawing) last night is that this option is no longer available to Italy.



  • edited June 2014



    Guys. As this is in Poker chat, it is obv Rob is a Scot pretending to be an Aussie.....while mocking the English. Shocking bluff, as per normal.
  • edited June 2014
    In Response to Re: England loss to Uruguay is not so bad...:
    remember too that on monday, before our group games are played, Italy will know where Brazil and The Netherlands will be placed.  It might be that losing the game against Uruguay means that Italy will avoid them in the quarter-finals and be drawn to play a lesser team instead.  However, now that there is a risk of being eliminated in the Uruguay game they cannot manipulate the result without knowing our game result.  One consequence of losing (and not drawing) last night is that this option is no longer available to Italy.
    Posted by aussie09
    You are assuming Italy win tonight. if they drawm we are out.

    If we drew yesterday and they draw tonight points would be 4 4 1 1 . Again putting it in Englands hands with a big win Tuesday night.


    To sum it up,  if we drew last night and Italy win tonight. We would JUST need to win Tuesday. 
                         If we drew last night and Italy win tonight. We would JUST need to win big Tuesday.
                         In our hands.

    After losing, draw tonight and we are out.  Italy win tonight we still need Uruguay to lose.  Out of our hands.

    Losing last night was a Massive difference to drawing.  How can you not see this?
  • edited June 2014


    i'm not arguing with you 1267.  this is not like your old chatbox episodes.



  • edited June 2014
    In Response to Re: England loss to Uruguay is not so bad...:
    remember too that on monday, before our group games are played, Italy will know where Brazil and The Netherlands will be placed.  It might be that losing the game against Uruguay means that Italy will avoid them in the quarter-finals and be drawn to play a lesser team instead.  However, now that there is a risk of being eliminated in the Uruguay game they cannot manipulate the result without knowing our game result.  One consequence of losing (and not drawing) last night is that this option is no longer available to Italy.
    Posted by aussie09
    Quarter finals are irrelevant.  They are guranteed to play Brazil or Netherlands (assuming they win their groups) in the quarters anway.  They would have very little chance if their best players get injured/suspened on Tuesday when they don't need to risk it.
  • edited June 2014
    In Response to Re: England loss to Uruguay is not so bad...:
    i'm not arguing with you 1267.  this is not like the chatbox episodes.
    Posted by aussie09
    Translation:    S***t im wrong.  Wish we drew last night.  Stupid Suarez.
  • edited June 2014
    In Response to Re: England loss to Uruguay is not so bad...:
    Guys. As this is in Poker chat, it is obv Rob is a Scot pretending to be an Aussie.....while mocking the English. Shocking bluff, as per normal.
    Posted by MAXALLY

    if only, alan.  totally an england supporter, but born in australia and living in scotland.  mind you, australia are out and scotland didnt qualify.



     
  • edited June 2014
    In Response to Re: England loss to Uruguay is not so bad...:
    In Response to Re: England loss to Uruguay is not so bad... : The differances where small but noticeable.  Sturridge - missed 2 great chances Rooney - Missed 2 out of 3 great chances.  Jagielka didnt defend well.  Suarez had 2 chances, scored 2 goals. 
    Posted by The_Don90
    Gerrard lost a tackle for first goal, and headed the ball, for an off-side Suarez to score the second. But as you say if you don't take your chances, 1 mistake from anybody and your out, the writing was on the wall in the 2 frendlies we played before the WC. And play people in position they play for there club.
  • edited June 2014
    Sorry sir
         Lost interest in England doing anything tbh. To give Jagielka the blame for the two goals is ludicrous. Ask Stevie G his thoughts. Baines being given stick is a poor call by pundits too. He was given no cover in the first game and was a big threat in second. Poor old Glen Johnson looked liked a sunday 'leaguer' in both games and you needed to read the team sheet to know Henderson was on the pitch in either game. 
         As usual we big up a player on one good performance(Sterling) and hit hard on a below average performance by another(Rooney). Are all countries like this? We are just so slow in getting the ball from back to front. I hardly saw anyone carry out a succesful one-two with Baines in either game. God, dont they practice? The pundits are so funny. They have more time now and consequently have to find a point to make. Unfortunately, to hear the likes of Lee Dixon talking about moving up for offside makes me nod off.
         It really is a big bore and i'm a football lover as well. We will watch again and be let down again no doubt. Lets have a young team with an adventurous manager and get rid of the deadwood dross as well as playing a player in their best position or not at all. Rant over....back to sky sports!!!!
  • edited June 2014
    In Response to Re: England loss to Uruguay is not so bad...:
    Sorry sir      Lost interest in England doing anything tbh. To give Jagielka the blame for the two goals is ludicrous. Ask Stevie G his thoughts. Baines being given stick is a poor call by pundits too. He was given no cover in the first game and was a big threat in second. Poor old Glen Johnson looked liked a sunday 'leaguer' in both games and you needed to read the team sheet to know Henderson was on the pitch in either game.       As usual we big up a player on one good performance(Sterling) and hit hard on a below average performance by another(Rooney). Are all countries like this? We are just so slow in getting the ball from back to front. I hardly saw anyone carry out a succesful one-two with Baines in either game. God, dont they practice? The pundits are so funny. They have more time now and consequently have to find a point to make. Unfortunately, to hear the likes of Lee Dixon talking about moving up for offside makes me nod off.      It really is a big bore and i'm a football lover as well. We will watch again and be let down again no doubt. Lets have a young team with an adventurous manager and get rid of the deadwood dross as well as playing a player in their best position or not at all. Rant over....back to sky sports!!!!
    Posted by profman15
    Hooray
    Someone else who thinks Johnson is a complete waste of space.
    Looked totally lost and disinterested for 89 mins against Uruguay.
    Every time he got the ball he didn't know what to do with it.
    He lost Cavani for the first goal as he was ball watching.
    Yes i know he made Rooneys goal, but he should be doing that all game long like he does for his club.
    We need a dominant midfield playmaker, Gerrard plays too deep and Henderson isn't strong enough.
  • edited June 2014
    In Response to Re: England loss to Uruguay is not so bad...:
    Sorry sir      Lost interest in England doing anything tbh. To give Jagielka the blame for the two goals is ludicrous. Ask Stevie G his thoughts. Baines being given stick is a poor call by pundits too. He was given no cover in the first game and was a big threat in second. Poor old Glen Johnson looked liked a sunday 'leaguer' in both games and you needed to read the team sheet to know Henderson was on the pitch in either game.       As usual we big up a player on one good performance(Sterling) and hit hard on a below average performance by another(Rooney). Are all countries like this? We are just so slow in getting the ball from back to front. I hardly saw anyone carry out a succesful one-two with Baines in either game. God, dont they practice?Posted by profman15
    If this was anonymous and we asked 100 people to guess the team of the author, I reckon at least 100 would answer Everton ;)
  • edited June 2014
    In Response to Re: England loss to Uruguay is not so bad...:
    In Response to Re: England loss to Uruguay is not so bad... : If this was anonymous and we asked 100 people to guess the team of the author, I reckon at least 100 would answer Everton ;)
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
     

    Well how did you guess D but tell me where I'm wrong in the points I've made in your opinion. I think Sturridge was our best player, Sterling had one good game and was mia in the other tbh. Why not play him on the wing and tell him to take on the full back instead of this silly return ball . He had the real pace along with Sturridge in our team. He couldn't play Barkley in a position that suited it seems. We are always the same. You could give teams a book on how we play.......why not play with more adventure. Rooney not my favourite to be honest wasEnglands best player last night and went up in my opinion for all the stick he's got got. Baines was let down by the players ahead of him IMO. Rooney in first game and Sterling/that man utd lad in second. It's just a big disappointment to be fair. I can't help feeling some England players were happy to play safe balls and not get the stick. Too safe IMO.
  • edited June 2014
    In Response to Re: England loss to Uruguay is not so bad...:
    In Response to Re: England loss to Uruguay is not so bad... : If this was anonymous and we asked 100 people to guess the team of the author, I reckon at least 100 would answer Everton ;)
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    +1 To this it always amuses me club rivarly seems more important to some that getting behind the national team.
  • edited June 2014
    In Response to Re: England loss to Uruguay is not so bad...:
    In Response to Re: England loss to Uruguay is not so bad... :   Well how did you guess D but tell me where I'm wrong in the points I've made in your opinion. I think Sturridge was our best player, Sterling had one good game and was mia in the other tbh. Why not play him on the wing and tell him to take on the full back instead of this silly return ball . He had the real pace along with Sturridge in our team. He couldn't play Barkley in a position that suited it seems. We are always the same. You could give teams a book on how we play.......why not play with more adventure. Rooney not my favourite to be honest wasEnglands best player last night and went up in my opinion for all the stick he's got got. Gaines was let down by the players ahead of him IMO. Rooney in first game and Sterling/that man utd lad in second. It's just a big disappointment to be fair. I can't help feeling some England players were happy to play safe balls and not get the stick. Too safe IMO.
    Posted by profman15
    Well I don't agree or disagree too strongly with a lot of what you've said apart from the highlighted part.

    The difference between the 2 teams was their 1 World Class player was much better than our 1 World class player.

    Rooney missed 2 great chances out of 3, Suarez took 2 out of 2.

    And that's the difference between a 2-1 loss and a 2-2 draw or a 2-3 win.

    You've got to remember, the World Cup for us is over after 180 minutes. It's such a short, high variance format where individual mistakes and individual genius are both amplified to the max.

    We didn't do much wrong, we competed well, tried hard, but as usual the key moments in the game at both ends went against us. And that's that for 4 more years I'm afraid :(
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