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The Future of Online Poker

edited July 2014 in Poker Chat
Online Poker has been decreasing in volume for years. One of the main catalysts, quite obviously, was black friday. However, even now some of the major sites have been facing fairly large % decreases in volume over years.
For example, one of the major networks has seen a 23% decrease in volume year by year for around 3 years. 

This would not be the only reason for online poker to die though - regulations and legislative measures are making it more and more difficult for people to play poker at home. 

In your opinion, will online poker die? If so, when will it die? Do we need the US market back?

I think the answer to the first question is a fairly obvious yes and anyone who answers otherwise will not be allowed to enter Sky Poker forum again. 

Comments

  • edited July 2014



    The future is Orange
  • edited July 2014
    In Response to The Future of Online Poker:
    Online Poker has been decreasing in volume for years. One of the main catalysts, quite obviously, was black friday. However, even now some of the major sites have been facing fairly large % decreases in volume over years. For example, one of the major networks has seen a 23% decrease in volume year by year for around 3 years.  This would not be the only reason for online poker to die though - regulations and legislative measures are making it more and more difficult for people to play poker at home.  In your opinion, will online poker die? If so, when will it die? Do we need the US market back? I think the answer to the first question is a fairly obvious yes and anyone who answers otherwise will not be allowed to enter Sky Poker forum again
    Posted by percival09
    Looks like this will be my last ever Post, then.....;)

    1) No.

    2) Never. It may not reach it's previous highs, but it won't "die".

    3) For a site like Sky Poker, which is exclusively GB & ROI facing, no, it makes little difference.


    It is correct to say that globally, Online Poker has declined y-o-y for a few years now. 

    However, a few sites have bucked that trend, & Sky Poker is one of them, as industry sources will confirm. 
     
  • edited July 2014
    The endless amount of training videos, coaching and software like HUDs which increase the gap between the good players and the recs/newbies is the cause IMO.

    New people are coming into the game and having a little splash around with some spare money. They are losing it far quicker and more regularly than before. It just doesn't give them the belief that they can make a few quid through poker, so they just disappear again and tell their friends poker is a waste of time.

    Following on from Tikay's post, I believe that's another reason why Skypoker hasn't suffered the loss that other sites have. If they ever start to allow HUDs on here then the numbers will start to tumble like other sites... Well that's my opinion anyway, and I hope we never have the chance to see if I'm correct.
  • edited July 2014
    In Response to Re: The Future of Online Poker:
    The endless amount of training videos, coaching and software like HUDs which increase the gap between the good players and the recs/newbies is the cause IMO. New people are coming into the game and having a little splash around with some spare money. They are losing it far quicker and more regularly than before. It just doesn't give them the belief that they can make a few quid through poker, so they just disappear again and tell their friends poker is a waste of time. Following on from Tikay's post, I believe that's another reason why Skypoker hasn't suffered the loss that other sites have. If they ever start to allow HUDs on here then the numbers will start to tumble like other sites... Well that's my opinion anyway, and I hope we never have the chance to see if I'm correct.
    Posted by FlashFlush
    I would "bet the shop" that Sky Poker would never allow HUD's & the like. It goes against their whole ethos of a level playing field.

    You will see more sites doing the same things soon, too, some already are, more will follow.  

    It's a fact of life, the poker economy is founded on the recreational players, not the nosebleed stake guys. Both are important, but it's a pyramid, & the foundation, composed of people playing for fun, is crucial.   
  • edited July 2014
    In Response to Re: The Future of Online Poker:
    In Response to Re: The Future of Online Poker : I would "bet the shop" that Sky Poker would never allow HUD's & the like. It goes against their whole ethos of a level playing field. You will see more sites doing the same things soon, too, some already are, more will follow.   It's a fact of life, the poker economy is founded on the recreational players, not the nosebleed stake guys. Both are important, but it's a pyramid, & the foundation, composed of people playing for fun, is crucial.   
    Posted by Tikay10
    One of the reasons I signed up with this site is because there is no HUD's. Something which I think could be advertised more.
  • edited July 2014
    In Response to Re: The Future of Online Poker:
    In Response to Re: The Future of Online Poker : One of the reasons I signed up with this site is because there is no HUD's. Something which I think could be advertised more.
    Posted by sharpyb704
    Good to hear that Sharpy.

    I don't get involved in the strategy & policy stuff upstairs any more, but I'd wager anything they would never allow HUD's.
     
    This policy gets poo-pooed on 2+2 & the like by the Big Boys, but no matter, it's not going to change, & they only have self-interest at heart in their comments.  

    PS - welcome to the Community.  
  • edited July 2014
    I don't think it'll die, but maybe like a lot of hobbies it has reached it's peak and is now heading down to a lower point where it'll plateau - bar any shocks that create another boom or bust scenario.

    To be honest, it still seems inconceivable that the US will be (largely) shut out of the market for the long term, what with being 'the land of the free' and the capitalist centre of the world. When they get the green light to open again, player numbers will boom again, even if not quite the same as they once did (given that a few recs will be fearful of fingers being burnt again).

    Although it's communist nature may make it less likely, I also wonder whether the Chinese may one day enter the online poker market in some fashion. It maybe that they'd only ever countenance a state-owned, Chinese-only platform, but if they did open the door to their citizens playing wherever they liked it could make the 2003/04 boom look tiny by comparison.

    Echo the points about removing the HUD/tracker software though - coaching sites are one thing, no issue with people wanting to better themselves, but the benefit of having that software vs recs can't be helpful... yes it's available to all, but in the early days of playing it seem unlikely that people will auto sign-up for a product like that when they just want to splash some chips around and learn the basics of the game.

    It feels like that software also adds to some of the wider fears of the safety/legitimacy of the game... ie less experienced players fearing that they are playing bots or that people can see their cards.

    Ps - does the news today about Sky buying up business across Europe have any impact on the poker site?  Will this be a window of opportunity to expand to Germany / Italy etc in the not-too-distant future?
  • edited July 2014
    In Response to Re: The Future of Online Poker:
    I don't think it'll die, but maybe like a lot of hobbies it has reached it's peak and is now heading down to a lower point where it'll plateau - bar any shocks that create another boom or bust scenario. To be honest, it still seems inconceivable that the US will be (largely) shut out of the market for the long term, what with being 'the land of the free' and the capitalist centre of the world. When they get the green light to open again, player numbers will boom again, even if not quite the same as they once did (given that a few recs will be fearful of fingers being burnt again). Although it's communist nature may make it less likely, I also wonder whether the Chinese may one day enter the online poker market in some fashion. It maybe that they'd only ever countenance a state-owned, Chinese-only platform, but if they did open the door to their citizens playing wherever they liked it could make the 2003/04 boom look tiny by comparison. Echo the points about removing the HUD/tracker software though - coaching sites are one thing, no issue with people wanting to better themselves, but the benefit of having that software vs recs can't be helpful... yes it's available to all, but in the early days of playing it seem unlikely that people will auto sign-up for a product like that when they just want to splash some chips around and learn the basics of the game. It feels like that software also adds to some of the wider fears of the safety/legitimacy of the game... ie less experienced players fearing that they are playing bots or that people can see their cards. Ps - does the news today about Sky buying up business across Europe have any impact on the poker site?  Will this be a window of opportunity to expand to Germany / Italy etc in the not-too-distant future?
    Posted by shakinaces
    Possibly, & they would not share such info with me, but I would think it extremely unlikely, due to regulatory issues. The Italian Market is already segregated.
     
    Cracking set of results, though.
  • edited July 2014
    online poker will never die - it will just turn into hunt the rec

    pretty sad really cause we nearly at that point anyway

    good luck


    greater future in MTT though, people love to dream/gambol etc..

     - cash games will die 100% gtd






  • edited July 2014
    In Response to Re: The Future of Online Poker:
    online poker will never die - it will just turn into hunt the rec pretty sad really cause we nearly at that point anyway good luck greater future in MTT though, people love to dream/gambol etc..  - cash games will die 100% gtd
    Posted by rancid
     I dont really see it like this, i'v not been playing Cash for long, but shurely the optimal way to play has always altered. From having to wait for hands to win, then playing Tag, and now observant Aggro player might be able to find weakness in the millions of Tag players. Maybe in the future Tag could be the new fish.
     Then when everyones aggro, tight would be the way to play again.
     I dont think there is an ultimate best way to play, it's just having the rite info and adjusting correctly.

  • edited July 2014
    i can't see poker ever dying out. poker alone might be getting less and less popular but the comppanies themselves will still have the betting, vegas and bingo to make the money. betting is one thing that will always be popular because sport is more popular than anything else.

    poker itself is probably at a point now where holdem is getting much harder to play because all the recs that we saw joining 10 years ago have given up and as it's on a PC it's easy for them to think that the game was rigged rather than bad play. when there was lots of recs we could do get lots of money through a tight aggressive style as we knew they were very happy to make loose calls.

    what i think will happen is holdem will die out and people will move over to PLO &PLO8. holdem might need recs for the best of value but PLO & PLO8 needs aggressive play more than anything and those who are most likely to play aggressive are regs.
  • edited July 2014
    In Response to Re: The Future of Online Poker:
    In Response to Re: The Future of Online Poker :  I dont really see it like this, i'v not been playing Cash for long, but shurely the optimal way to play has always altered. From having to wait for hands to win, then playing Tag, and now observant Aggro player might be able to find weakness in the millions of Tag players. Maybe in the future Tag could be the new fish.  Then when everyones aggro, tight would be the way to play again.  I dont think there is an ultimate best way to play, it's just having the rite info and adjusting correctly.
    Posted by Clyde420
    described what i was trying to describe only much easy to under stand it as you say it.
  • edited July 2014
    Although it's communist nature may make it less likely, I also wonder whether the Chinese may one day enter the online poker market in some fashion. It maybe that they'd only ever countenance a state-owned, Chinese-only platform, but if they did open the door to their citizens playing wherever they liked it could make the 2003/04 boom look tiny by comparison.
    Posted by shakinaces

    nice idea but it'll never happen
    Chinese government tries to protect its population from itself
    ie 
    no to opium
    no to religious mumbo jumbo
    no to organised gambling

    and whereas Great Britain was happy to send in the navy to make the Chinese buy British opium, and send in missionaries to promote Christianity  I'm not sensing the same nationalistic urge to expand Skypoker in the same way, at least not while the UK govt has the Ukraine to play with. 


  • edited July 2014
    These type of threads pop up all the time on 2+2 and the like and are created by the same people who post up HH's to get advice often beginning with 'Not many hands on villain, stats are X/Y/Z blah blah blah' and they still ask why the recs aren't as frequent as the once were. The fact that you can have all of this info on a player without doing any work yourself and without the other player even knowing you have it is a disgrace imo. 


  • edited July 2014
    The appeal of hold 'em is that it's a simple game with layers of complexity. PLO and PLO8 are complex games from the outset. They're unlikely to ever overtake hold 'em as a result.

    There are good reasons why the "poker boom" was in hold 'em and not other variants of the game.



    The OP is on a bit of a wind up with a serious point underlying it. Of course online poker won't die but nor is it impervious to real world factors. Economies are recovering from a hell of a shock and people are being less cavalier with their money. That and the whole American issue are amongst many reasons for declining traffic. If you're waiting for the poker apocalypse I think you'll be waiting a very long time.


    As for the whole "poker moves in trends" thing, try not to think of it that way. It will only get in the way of observing the particular opponents you're facing at any given moment. Don't be 'TAG', don't be 'LAG'. Be whatever your opponent doesn't want you to be.
  • edited July 2014
    In Response to Re: The Future of Online Poker:
    online poker will never die - it will just turn into hunt the rec pretty sad really cause we nearly at that point anyway good luck greater future in MTT though, people love to dream/gambol etc..  - cash games will die 100% gtd
    Posted by rancid
    +1 on both counts
  • edited July 2014
    It is not simply online poker that is reducing (i refuse to use the word "dying" as it is a ridiculous over statement and emotive word) live poker has been falling back also. Casino tournaments in my area, the north west something of a hot bed for poker has found that its nightly tournaments just do not get the numbers they once did. Big events, like a 25/25 series usually hit good figures, but they are things , like UKPC, that the more earnest poker player makes an effort for.

    IMO, I will use the same phrase for why poker numbers are falling off, that is used in Politics to explain losing elections. "It's the Economy Stupid!" Right now people just don't have the disposable income in this counry that they used to. If you include poker playing as part of the leisure industry, then like all those areas, attendance is down. People haven't given up holidays, going out, paying to go to sporting events. They just do it less often.

    Sermon Over.

    Good Luck at the Tables all.
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