Bad players rewarded!!

JuliusAA

Im writting this post because i cant get ahead on skypoker and i need someone to say something to me to put it in perspective or something!

 I wouldnt say im a good player because i dont have the funds to prove it, but i wouldnt say im bad either. Iv watched the videos, read the blogs and know not to tilt and that luck goes round in circles. But why cant my hands hold up when a player makes a bad decision in a situation where i would typically want them to call????? Now before you think that im just going to rattle off some bad beats, im just using them as a way of putting this all in perspective.

Its getting to the point where i can almost predict whats going to happen. Take my last tournament exit, I had QJ of hearts in middlle position, blinds were 150 and 300 everyone had about 3500, I raise to 900, after playing very tight so my table image was reliable. I get called by the small and big blind...just called. the flop comes j44, rainbow. both check, and id already decided to play the hand aggressively so i went all in (my stack was relatively low - 2700 as it was early and i knew these two players liked to see flops with medium hands.) The small blind called me with a10o, big blind folded. so im thinking this is ok this is good he has maybe 15% chance of winning (why he made the call!? maybe he put me on a small pocket pair and he had overs, either way i should feel relatively safe.) turn k, river q! 

They say dont tilt, but the last 2 times iv seen someone else tilt and go all in with whatever they had the next hand, i just so happened to have kks and aces the next one. Anyone would think excellent, im going to punish them for tilting, yet when i had aces they flopped a straight from utg with 56o. the next time they rivered a straight from allin, mid position with j10o and i had kings. 

These supposidly super rare occassions are part of my every day poker life on skypoker, and its got to the point where i feel behind even when i have aces. i know the odds are rarely even more then 60% but its beginning to be a joke, AND I CANT HELP BUT FEEL THE BIG STACKS GET MORE LUCK!! so much so, that when i was a big stack and was up against someone with a third of my stack and i knew he had a very good hand after folding almost everyhand before i still put him allin when he raised 4bbs preflop and i had qjo, because i KNEW id win. He had aksuited and i hit a full house.

My point here is that i feel like im playing the luck game and whether i feel like im going to win preflop regardless of the cards, and im not playing poker! 

I understand how long winded that might all be, and to some extend quite confusing as to my point, but id still be happy to hear what anyone else thinks about all this and whether they have any words of wisdom to share.

Slykllist

We've all been there, it's horrible when it feels like whatever you do you can't win!

The beautiful thing about poker is as long as you consistently do the right thing, over time you will be profitable, it's a 100% cast iron truth!

I know it can feel like the site has it in for you and that it MUST be rigged against YOU, but it's simply not true.  Just read that sentence and think about it logically, what possible benefit is there to Sky poker in this?

The one really important thing to remember about poker and particular multi table tournament poker is that it is ridiculously difficult to win.  Even playing absolutely perfect textbook poker, you can still go months and months without a significant cash (believe me I've been there), you just need to stay focussed and keep doing the right things.  When any doubts creep into our minds it can have really subtle but incredibly significant effects on our game, we expect the worst so we play too cautiously, we get annoyed so tilt too easily etc.......

Just ride it out and concentrate on your own game and be happy that you are doing the right things, that's all that you can controll!

Slykllist

Also..... be aware that you might not be doing the right things, there will almost definitely be leaks in your game, work out what they are and work on fixing them, don't keep blaming the site / software / bad players etc.....  If you're not winning, it's likely that you need to change things in your own game too, it's way too easy to blame variance for bad results, it's not always the case!

salazar

Big stacks don't get more luck, but they do take more chances. They don't bother too much if they lose to a small stack because they are still in the tourney. If you're playing bounty hunters then the chance of someone calling you with a maginal hand increases, especially if they are a big stack and you are a small stack.

poker is fustrating, you lose sometimes when you get your money in as a big favourite and for some reason it seems to happen in clusters.

I felt pretty unlucky going out of an MTT a couple of hours ago with KK vs JJ. Money in preflop, the guy didn't even hit a jack, four diamonds came on the board and he had one, i didn't.

I wouldn't say dealing with bad beats get easy but if you play long enough you learn that poker isn't always fair and it's something you have to deal with and accept.

I'm sure you've got lucky when you were behind and hit a card and no doubt that person who was on the end of it was thinking why do i always get unlucky.

we seem to remember when people hit cards against us but forget when we hit cards against them.

LARSON7

Hey Julius

Welcome to the forum.

One of the best things you can do is post hands in the poker clinic section of the forum.

Doing this will allow you to get excellent feedback from a wide range of players. Sometimes we think we play a hand well, but could still be making mistakes.

hhyftrftdr

Man, that was hard to read after a 12 hour night shift.

Let me put the kettle on, get back to you later.

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Bad players rewarded!!:

I CANT HELP BUT FEEL THE BIG STACKS GET MORE LUCK!! so much so, that when i was a big stack and was up against someone with a third of my stack and i knew he had a very good hand after folding almost everyhand before i still put him allin when he raised 4bbs preflop and i had qjo, because i KNEW id win. He had aksuited and i hit a full house.Posted by JuliusAA

It sounds like you have solved poker!

BorinLoner

You wouldn't say you're a good player or a bad player. I will say what I think...

You are a bad player.

Most people get upset when someone says that about them. It's an ego thing. We all start out as bad players but it's our ego that prevents us from improving, if we let it. When we blame the software or our rotten luck for us losing in the long-term, that's our ego talking.

Don't be insulted by being called a bad player. Being insulted will hold you back. You shouldn't care about being good or bad. Just care about whether the decisions you made are the best you could have made.

The truth is that not many players out there are winners in the long run. Most players are losers. If you want to be a winner, you've really got to work hard. Poker is a skill game but it takes effort to refine those skills. Have you really put as much effort into it as the big winners? Be honest with yourself.

unknown_username

Hi m8, i've been on a loosing streak for about 3 months, and know nothing goes your way, so while still in profit had a bit of time out. But still loged in a watched a few games low stakes, high stakes, bh, anything, and then on fri thought i would try again felt confident and finaly won a few hands, then 2 hours into the torni my internet went down, tilt time again. But at the back of my mind i knew it was turning, so on sat, entered another torni, finnshed 2nd made a mistake hu but hay no ones perfect. Have a break come back when you feel right, confidence is a big thing in poker. Good luck.

Itsover4u

ok the hand example you posted with the qj leds me to think you are not a proftable player....

In future tournaments calculate you M which is Stack size diveded by (Big bling + small blind)

in this exact examply your M is 7.77

whenever your M is below 10 you are in a shove / fold situation

when you are at 5 your range needs to widen greatly & at 2 its any two will do time.

GaryQQQ

tldr.

However I will say this; bad players being rewarded is a key ingredient of poker. Accept it and embrace it.

Why?

If bad players were never rewarded they'd soon stop playing. Then only the good players would be left and we'd have a level playing field. Nobody would be able to win much in that scenario, so all the good players would start to leave too. Poker would die.

MattBates

If we have the mindset that we are making no mistakes and its down to "these bad players" that we are not winning then its a massive flaw in our game and its an excuse about why we aren't winning!

We cannot stop making opponents making bad calls.

Now, lets think about that sentence, we DO NOT want to stop them making these calls. We want our opponents to make mistakes. If our opponent gets lucky then that's part of the game, we just need to put in enough volume for the variance to even out.

Spend more time working on your game and working on how to get a big stack so that you can lose a flip or two and still be in the tournament and less on how your opponents are playing bad/getting lucky. There are a number of flaws in your logic regarding your exit hand. Posts hands in the clinic and people can help you.

FlyingDagg

In Response to Bad players rewarded!!:
AND I CANT HELP BUT FEEL THE BIG STACKS GET MORE LUCK!! so much so, that when i was a big stack and was up against someone with a third of my stack and i knew he had a very good hand after folding almost everyhand before i still put him allin when he raised 4bbs preflop and i had qjo, because i KNEW id win. He had aksuited and i hit a full house.

You've said it all there. That's why they are the big stacks. Simon's right even the best need luck to go their way. All you can do is hope to have the best hand preflop especially if your allin. The rest is down to luck not skill.

jonjo75

I hope this doesn't sound too harsh but for me, opening 3x with an 11 BB stack with QJ (or any hand for that matter) is bad play so if you had won the hand ,bad play would have been rewarded also.

NoseyBonk

"Bad players rewarded!!"

Bit like some footballers ££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££

gerardirl

Hi Julius, when you say the big stack has more luck and you just know what is going to come on the river etc. I have also experienced this, the big stack needs a 5 and a 5 rivers etc. However many times they dont hit and I forget about the times they dont hit and just remember the times they do. So its your mind playing tricks on you in a way. Take a note of everytime you think you know what they are going to hit and write it down! See how often your right.

What are your aims, what do you want to get out of poker? 

If you only play tournaments then are you happy with cashing or do have to win it to be successful? 

From the short post you made maybe your playing too tight early on and leaving yourself short where you have to panic shove?

If you want a break from tournaments you should try the dyms. These are a good way of building your confidence at least you have a 50% chance of cashing.

Let us know how you get on.

Ger

Nuggy962

In Response to Re: Bad players rewarded!!:

ok the hand example you posted with the qj leds me to think you are not a proftable player.... In future tournaments calculate you M which is Stack size diveded by (Big bling + small blind) in this exact examply your M is 7.77 whenever your M is below 10 you are in a shove / fold situation when you are at 5 your range needs to widen greatly & at 2 its any two will do time.
Posted by Itsover4u

I do not totally agree with this comment - I think that in a game with antes the M is more relevant - A shove with M of say 7 - or 11BB would only move you to 12BB in this format.

However - If, as you said, you was shoving the flop whatever - not terrible play - but will only get called by better (usually)

I used to think like the OP - and was not until I listened and worked on my own game that I improved.

Run well

Slykllist

In Response to Re: Bad players rewarded!!:

In Response to Re: Bad players rewarded!! :

ok the hand example you posted with the qj leds me to think you are not a proftable player.... In future tournaments calculate you M which is Stack size diveded by (Big bling + small blind) in this exact examply your M is 7.77 whenever your M is below 10 you are in a shove / fold situation when you are at 5 your range needs to widen greatly & at 2 its any two will do time. Posted by Itsover4u I do not totally agree with this comment - I think that in a game with antes the M is more relevant - A shove with M of say 7 - or 11BB would only move you to 12BB in this format. However - If, as you said, you was shoving the flop whatever - not terrible play - but will only get called by better (usually) I used to think like the OP - and was not until I listened and worked on my own game that I improved. Run well
Posted by Nuggy962

It's about fold equity

JuliusAA

In Response to Re: Bad players rewarded!!:

We've all been there, it's horrible when it feels like whatever you do you can't win! The beautiful thing about poker is as long as you consistently do the right thing, over time you will be profitable, it's a 100% cast iron truth! I know it can feel like the site has it in for you and that it MUST be rigged against YOU, but it's simply not true.  Just read that sentence and think about it logically, what possible benefit is there to Sky poker in this? The one really important thing to remember about poker and particular multi table tournament poker is that it is ridiculously difficult to win.  Even playing absolutely perfect textbook poker, you can still go months and months without a significant cash (believe me I've been there), you just need to stay focussed and keep doing the right things.  When any doubts creep into our minds it can have really subtle but incredibly significant effects on our game, we expect the worst so we play too cautiously, we get annoyed so tilt too easily etc....... Just ride it out and concentrate on your own game and be happy that you are doing the right things, that's all that you can controll!
Posted by Slykllist

Thanks, this was a very encouraging post. i have to say though i never think its rigged against me lol, i go through phases where i feel eager to play and so i make good decisions and then times when im just playing for the sake of it and make so so decisions that lead to bad beats getting to me and that just corrupts my whole game lol. 

JuliusAA

In Response to Re: Bad players rewarded!!:

Big stacks don't get more luck, but they do take more chances. They don't bother too much if they lose to a small stack because they are still in the tourney. If you're playing bounty hunters then the chance of someone calling you with a maginal hand increases, especially if they are a big stack and you are a small stack. poker is fustrating, you lose sometimes when you get your money in as a big favourite and for some reason it seems to happen in clusters. I felt pretty unlucky going out of an MTT a couple of hours ago with KK vs JJ. Money in preflop, the guy didn't even hit a jack, four diamonds came on the board and he had one, i didn't. I wouldn't say dealing with bad beats get easy but if you play long enough you learn that poker isn't always fair and it's something you have to deal with and accept. I'm sure you've got lucky when you were behind and hit a card and no doubt that person who was on the end of it was thinking why do i always get unlucky. we seem to remember when people hit cards against us but forget when we hit cards against them.
Posted by salazar

Of course your right, its easier to remember the times our opponents get lucky and forget the times we get lucky on them but i was going through what seemed like a never ending suck out phase! i think i have riden the storm though and am finally coming out the other side.

JuliusAA

In Response to Re: Bad players rewarded!!:

You wouldn't say you're a good player or a bad player. I will say what I think... You are a bad player. Most people get upset when someone says that about them. It's an ego thing.  We all start out as bad players but it's our ego that prevents us from improving, if we let it. When we blame the software or our rotten luck for us losing in the long-term, that's our ego talking. Don't be insulted by being called a bad player. Being insulted will hold you back. You shouldn't care about being good or bad. Just care about whether the decisions you made are the best you could have made. The truth is that not many players out there are winners in the long run. Most players are losers. If you want to be a winner, you've really got to work hard. Poker is a skill game but it takes effort to refine those skills. Have you really put as much effort into it as the big winners? Be honest with yourself.
Posted by BorinLoner

OK ill start by answering your question... yes i do believe iv put alot of effort into refinning my game. i take the game quite seriously because i love playing but i have no intention of becoming a pro. i made the mistake of thinking i could play profitably on cash tables, which are definately not for me, MTT and SNGs are what im best at, because i understand the strategy better and have more patience for them. I see that you yourself arnt a bad player and are at least in the profit, however if being called a bad player is meaningless then why would you say im a bad player? Look, im good enough for what i wanna do here, and i made the post because in all my time playing poker iv never been through such a bad run and genuinely got to the point where i thought, this cant be me. ill admit, i let the bad run affect my decisions and went on a huge tilting session for a while which further ruined my game but i took a break as some of you suggested and came back to come 19th in the 10k BH the other day. (Which i should of done a long time ago.) I was looking for words of encouragement not reasons why im a bad player.

JuliusAA

In Response to Re: Bad players rewarded!!:

Hi m8, i've been on a loosing streak for about 3 months, and know nothing goes your way, so while still in profit had a bit of time out. But still loged in a watched a few games low stakes, high stakes, bh, anything, and then on fri thought i would try again felt confident and finaly won a few hands, then 2 hours into the torni my internet went down, tilt time again. But at the back of my mind i knew it was turning, so on sat, entered another torni, finnshed 2nd made a mistake hu but hay no ones perfect. Have a break come back when you feel right, confidence is a big thing in poker. Good luck.
Posted by tomo_efc

Hey man thanks for your encouragment, i did take a break and came back with a fresh approach and came 19th in that 10k Bh the other day. would of won it but made a mistake and got punished haha. Good luck to you and thanks again.

JuliusAA

In Response to Re: Bad players rewarded!!:

ok the hand example you posted with the qj leds me to think you are not a proftable player.... In future tournaments calculate you M which is Stack size diveded by (Big bling + small blind) in this exact examply your M is 7.77 whenever your M is below 10 you are in a shove / fold situation when you are at 5 your range needs to widen greatly & at 2 its any two will do time.
Posted by Itsover4u

OK cool, Thanks

JuliusAA

In Response to Re: Bad players rewarded!!:

If we have the mindset that we are making no mistakes and its down to "these bad players" that we are not winning then its a massive flaw in our game and its an excuse about why we aren't winning! We cannot stop making opponents making bad calls. Now, lets think about that sentence, we DO NOT want to stop them making these calls. We want our opponents to make mistakes. If our opponent gets lucky then that's part of the game, we just need to put in enough volume for the variance to even out. Spend more time working on your game and working on how to get a big stack so that you can lose a flip or two and still be in the tournament and less on how your opponents are playing bad/getting lucky. There are a number of flaws in your logic regarding your exit hand. Posts hands in the clinic and people can help you.
Posted by MattBates

Yeah man, you are right in what your are saying. I just needed a break and to ride the storm of bad beats. Thanks for your post 

JuliusAA

In Response to Re: Bad players rewarded!!:

"Bad players rewarded!!" Bit like some footballers ££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££
Posted by NoseyBonk

lol

Haemophile

hi new to the forums as never really been much of a chatty person but to put it into perspective i started on sky poker about 3 years ago now and im not much of a depositer and i dont win much either but i try to not let this bother me as that causes tilt but since i started playing poker i have gone round nearly all the ipoker sites microgaming sites pokerstars full tilt you name it if its well known ive played there and put little deposits on every site so i can honestly tell you that im sorry m8 its not skypoker this sort of thing happens on every online site and if given enough time (i think the ratio is 1:4 online hrs:casino hrs) you would see this happen live as well the main fact is that as a poker player you do have to accept these things and just move onto the next hand

when i was just starting i was exactly the same and after 3 years of reading books watching videos and trolling through poker forums online im only about break even which isnt great but once again not that bothered as i love the game eventually it does turn round best of luck in the future

cardu

hi julius,

i have to agree with you....i am a good player(not being bigheaded etc).

ive been playing cards/poker for over 30 years...live and internet...

also have had very good results in both except for sky....i win the odd tourny here and there mainly by playing the opposite of what i should lol.....my sharkscope is terrible...my win % flip ( aa v ??) etc is 3/10...

if im all in i will be winning at the time...i understand my flopped nut straight will lose to runna runna flush sometimes which is ok...we all want those callers but its the callers again and again that call with 93os and flop trips etc..........i love playing on sky due to the uk side of it but i have never run so bad in the 4 or 5 years of playing on the site...wsop poker site is the same...i played a tourny on there awhile ago and folded all good hands aa/kk/qq/ak etc etc etc....some of the time i would of won but later in the tourny those hands would of lost big pots against hands that shoulf not even be in it....i won the tourny by playing things like 64,58,73 etc etc etc....its a computer program so it has bugs but i will beat it lol even if it takes another 4/5 years  gl on the tables all

Sky_Poker

In Response to Re: Bad players rewarded!!:

hi julius, i have to agree with you....i am a good player(not being bigheaded etc). ive been playing cards/poker for over 30 years...live and internet... also have had very good results in both except for sky....i win the odd tourny here and there mainly by playing the opposite of what i should lol.....my sharkscope is terrible...my win % flip ( aa v ??) etc is 3/10... if im all in i will be winning at the time...i understand my flopped nut straight will lose to runna runna flush sometimes which is ok...we all want those callers but its the callers again and again that call with 93os and flop trips etc..........i love playing on sky due to the uk side of it but i have never run so bad in the 4 or 5 years of playing on the site...wsop poker site is the same...i played a tourny on there awhile ago and folded all good hands aa/kk/qq/ak etc etc etc....some of the time i would of won but later in the tourny those hands would of lost big pots against hands that shoulf not even be in it....i won the tourny by playing things like 64,58,73 etc etc etc....its a computer program so it has bugs but i will beat it lol even if it takes another 4/5 years  gl on the tables all
Posted by cardu

Hi Cardu - sorry, but this isnt correct.

The Random Number Generator (RNG) that decides the cards is independently audited and verified. Therefore, to say there are 'bugs' would be incorrect.

All it does is effectively generate cards, randomly.

Thanks

Sky Poker

MattBates

In Response to Re: Bad players rewarded!!:

hi julius, i have to agree with you....i am a good player(not being bigheaded etc). ive been playing cards/poker for over 30 years...live and internet... also have had very good results in both except for sky....i win the odd tourny here and there mainly by playing the opposite of what i should lol.....my sharkscope is terrible...my win % flip ( aa v ??) etc is 3/10... if im all in i will be winning at the time...i understand my flopped nut straight will lose to runna runna flush sometimes which is ok...we all want those callers but its the callers again and again that call with 93os and flop trips etc..........i love playing on sky due to the uk side of it but i have never run so bad in the 4 or 5 years of playing on the site...wsop poker site is the same...i played a tourny on there awhile ago and folded all good hands aa/kk/qq/ak etc etc etc....some of the time i would of won but later in the tourny those hands would of lost big pots against hands that shoulf not even be in it....i won the tourny by playing things like 64,58,73 etc etc etc....its a computer program so it has bugs but i will beat it lol even if it takes another 4/5 years  gl on the tables all
Posted by cardu

So in summary you play great but its the different sites fault?

jordz16

In Response to Re: Bad players rewarded!!:

hi julius, i have to agree with you....i am a good player(not being bigheaded etc). ive been playing cards/poker for over 30 years...live and internet... also have had very good results in both except for sky....i win the odd tourny here and there mainly by playing the opposite of what i should lol.....my sharkscope is terrible...my win % flip ( aa v ??) etc is 3/10... if im all in i will be winning at the time...i understand my flopped nut straight will lose to runna runna flush sometimes which is ok...we all want those callers but its the callers again and again that call with 93os and flop trips etc..........i love playing on sky due to the uk side of it but i have never run so bad in the 4 or 5 years of playing on the site...wsop poker site is the same...i played a tourny on there awhile ago and folded all good hands aa/kk/qq/ak etc etc etc....some of the time i would of won but later in the tourny those hands would of lost big pots against hands that shoulf not even be in it....i won the tourny by playing things like 64,58,73 etc etc etc....its a computer program so it has bugs but i will beat it lol even if it takes another 4/5 years  gl on the tables all
Posted by cardu

Do you read the Daily Mail?

NoseyBonk

In Response to Re: Bad players rewarded!!:

In Response to Re: Bad players rewarded!! : Hi Cardu - sorry, but this isnt correct. The Random Number Generator (RNG) that decides the cards is independently audited and verified. Therefore, to say there are 'bugs' would be incorrect. All it does is effectively generate cards, randomly. Thanks Sky Poker
Posted by Sky_Poker

Also, I get the impression (from what I've picked up from this forum over many years) is people who are unfamiliar with computing, and especially computer programming, think that a poker card shuffling routine is a very sophisticated piece of software requiring immense programming skill and hardware processing power, when it's actually quite simple to code.