must let it out charge big for this cclown

craigcu12

Hand History #805349237 (20:24 08/08/2014)

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
goodylad21	Small blind		15.00	15.00	1565.00
mario0	Big blind		30.00	45.00	2440.00
	Your hole cards	Q A
Trueseal	Raise		60.00	105.00	3040.00
Michael_M	Call		60.00	165.00	635.00
	Call		60.00	225.00	1705.00
craigcu12	Raise		210.00	435.00	2180.00
goodylad21	Fold
mario0	Fold
Trueseal	Call		150.00	585.00	2890.00
Michael_M	Call		150.00	735.00	485.00
	Call		150.00	885.00	1555.00
Flop
		4 8 8
Trueseal	Check
Michael_M	Check
	Check
craigcu12	Bet		390.00	1275.00	1790.00
Trueseal	Fold
Michael_M	Fold
1tsonly1yf	Call		390.00	1665.00	1165.00
Turn
		J
	Check
craigcu12	Bet		1248.75	2913.75	541.25
	All-in		1165.00	4078.75	0.00
craigcu12	Unmatched bet		83.75	3995.00	625.00
	Show	4 8
craigcu12	Show	Q A
River
		K
	Win	Full House, 8s and 4s	3995.00		3995.0

craigcu12

it does raise te question
Q. knowing there are so many loose passive recs in the eary stages of an MTT, should i play extremely tight when choosing to 3bet?

Lambert180

In 2 words... Results orientated.

People calling 3bets with 84s is a reason to 3bet wider for value, not tighter. We love him doing this when we got AQ

craigcu12

the thing is i only seem to be getting so annoyed when it is AK and AQ.

today i've had a number of premium pairs loosing out to bad rivers but each and everyone of them i just took with ease.

what comes to mind with the AK and AQ is that if i missed that A K or Q on the flop i am now facing a extremely dangerous risk because 9 times out of 10 they are going to call a cbet as these people call runner runner flush draws, runner runner straight draws, gutshots all sorts really the other side to the coin is that i get what happened twice already i cbet called an AK on a low board the next day having 3bet preflop i shipped AK on the flop but that still got middle overpairs to call and as i see here it's a passive player who is unlikely to raise a strong hand meaning i've got to try getting him to fold but get the worst thing happen as he had me drawing dead.

the next problem is i'm now on the turn and again if i missed the A K or Q i've got two issues, 1 them calling the runner runner might have missed so therefore i want to protect my A high from him as he might hit a pair on river. the down side is it hasn't got much chance of stopping those who already have made a hand and i could well be drawing dead as i was here.

so all these problems i see myself in when 3betting AK and AQ preflop but missing look easilybe easily prevented whilst at the same time i can get as much value from them all when i hit by doing small bets because 4x60 would be as good as 240x1 but the positive about 4x60 is i loose less if behind. if it was heads up i would be sure to consider 3betting AK and AQ most times but multi way seems a big risk.


so all i think to myself is why bother 3betting AK and AQ this early in an MTT preflop when i know for a fact that 9 times out of 10 i willi need to hit the pair when the pot is multiway


all i have to say to myself is if he is going to call a 3bet with 84s when he should know that it will struggle most days well i can expect him to be doing a call with lots of rubbish when i bet my made hand postflop.

here is an example of what i'm thinking
ihaving checked preflop do i a large bet on a very wet board but he still makes the call with a gutshot

eggead	Small blind		75.00	75.00	1012.50
craigcu12	Big blind		150.00	225.00	4110.00
	Your hole cards	J A
infurno119	Call		150.00	375.00	5432.50
Bunker180	Fold
snookery	Call		150.00	525.00	5385.00
	Call		150.00	675.00	5130.00
eggead	Fold
craigcu12	Check
Flop
		J 10 7
craigcu12	Bet		450.00	1125.00	3660.00
infurno119	Fold
snookery	Call		450.00	1575.00	4935.00
	Call		450.00	2025.00	4680.00
Turn
		8
craigcu12	Check
snookery	Check
	Check
River
		2
craigcu12	Check
snookery	Check
	Bet		300.00	2325.00	4380.00
craigcu12	Call		300.00	2625.00	3360.00
snookery	Fold
	Show	8 8
craigcu12	Muck	J A
	Win	Three 8s	2625.00		7005.0

the main thing is people say it all the thime an MTT can't be won early but it certainly can be lost. So take such a big risk when i will know for a fact that 9/10 recs will still call hands pre and most of the time i get put in a spot where the pot is multi way leaving me having to take a massive risk with the cbet.

ZIPPY146

its a circus out there craig,and there is plenty of clowns about.Nothing wrong pre,u got aq, more often than not he will miss completely,but even a blind man can score a goal.....u could join the circus too,for goin all in on the turn,he wasn't calling  post flop with nowt... size 24 boots and a red nose 4u!!!!!

DOHHHHHHH

You have to read the board and also factor in the reads you have on an opponent. 

Don't always cbet. Don't always give up on the flop. 

What boards are good to cbet when we miss? What is out plan on the turn on certain cards? 

Don't have a set rule.

488 in the first hand is a dry board, it's unlikely anyone as hit it, but you got 4 callers pre flop in a 3bet pot, what type of hands do you think they have?

55/66/77/99/TT/JJ are all likely. And wont fold on this texture. So just give up. Bluffing into 4 opponents is suicide. 

Your mistake isn't 3betting pre, think about the streets in isolation. 3 betting AQ pre at micro stakes is totally standard. 

Going crackers post flop and spewing off your stack is not standard, and is the big mistake. Just give up. You don't have to win every hand. 

hhyftrftdr

Huge +1 to Doh, great post.