QQ on the button...flop play?

anchist11

Situation: 

in a live tournament the other day; am 30bb deep.

I open the pot to 3xbb with QQ on the button. 

One call from sb. 

I ask to see how many chips the sb has. He shows me. He has about 25bb.

Flop comes  A-8-3 rainbow.

Sb checks.

I bet 2/3 of the pot.

Sb shoves.

I hesitate, then fold, and show the Queens.

Sb turns over 55.

Question for everyone: what went wrong here, if anything? Should I check the flop here ever?

craigcu12

being 30BB deep your already going to be expected to hold a strong pair Ax or 2 broadway cards making this flop likely to hit your range.

this board is a one that has no draws and as your own hand is not a missed set or missed broadway cards, your main aim is to bet for value, the thing about this 2/3 pot  size bet is your only going to expect an A to call most days. the best thing here would be to do a bet of say 2 BB with all hands then ch on the turn thatway you will have the chance to still get weak pairs to call and also if you did hold Ax and someone jammed he risks lot of chips.

hhyftrftdr

I'd Cbet smaller than that....dry board, nothing to protect against, and gonna be difficult to get value from hands we beat, certainly not 3 streets that's for sure.

Possibly check back this flop in position; keep the pot under control if we are behind, and give him a chance to bluff at it on later streets. Would sometimes check back large A's as well for balance.

anchist11

In Response to Re: QQ on the button...flop play?:

being 30BB deep your already going to be expected to hold a strong pair Ax or 2 broadway cards making this flop likely to hit your range. this board is a one that has no draws and as your own hand is not a missed set or missed broadway cards, your main aim is to bet for value, the thing about this 2/3 pot  size bet is your only going to expect an A to call most days. the best thing here would be to do a bet of say 2 BB with all hands then ch on the turn thatway you will have the chance to still get weak pairs to call and also if you did hold Ax and someone jammed he risks lot of chips.
Posted by craigcu12

Hi Craig - thanks for this.

So you're saying bet very low on the flop (only bet 2bb into a pot of 7bb) and that this makes a shove less likely? 

If so, that's an interesting approach; I quite like it. 

Can you shed any light on the psychology behind his shove here? I really don't get it. He thinks I'm bluffing and trying to steal the blinds with nothing?

anchist11

In Response to Re: QQ on the button...flop play?:

I'd Cbet smaller than that....dry board, nothing to protect against, and gonna be difficult to get value from hands we beat, certainly not 3 streets that's for sure. Possibly check back this flop in position; keep the pot under control if we are behind, and give him a chance to bluff at it on later streets. Would sometimes check back large A's as well for balance.
Posted by hhyftrftdr

Nice. Yes the smaller cbet/check does make a lot of sense. I always think that, when checking in this spot, I immediately sow a large suspicion that I have top set (!) and don't want to kill my action, but perhaps that's an unjustified suspicion on my part. 

grantorino

What went wrong? Showing your hand, I think the fold is ok readless, even though he doesn't rep much

I like checking the flop ip, 1/2 pot fine for cbet here if you want to bet

bearlyther

Flop seems like a clear check considering the board is rainbow so is hard to get value from many hands and we dont need to protect against much.

PokerPops_

Very easy to spot a -ve tell when you raise JJ/QQ/KK and an Ace appears on the flop...