DYMs Confidence Problems

stuarty117

I usually play DYMs and love it. Played with some great players in the last 6 months at the levels I play e.g. Jac35, Jdsallstar, evilpingu, Heddoh, Edrich.  Learnt a lot playing with these people.

I use to play 5.50s most of the time and had great results had a ROI of around 6-7. But recently I have hit a wall a big big brick one lol and my roi has dropped to 4%.
So what did I do: -

I moved back to the 3.30s dyms and have had great success roi over 7%.

While playing these over the last few weeks I have played some 5.50s but I cant really win a game I have no confidence in them.

My question is: -

Does anyone have any tips on how to build my confidence back up so I can have another crack at these at the 5.50s. Or
have you had the same experience at a certain level.

Or should I just stick with 3.30s for another wee bit


Mr 117

spinky6108

Hi Stuarty been suffering the same fate myself i have now moved down to £3 and £2 DYMS cant buy a win on the £5 level. Thats proberly one reason you can't win on £5 because i'm not there and you can't get all my chips .

Seriously though i'm not sure if the £5 standard has risen or i'm not playing my A game anymore. Or maybe just variance. The £5 levels i've played recently have not had any early knockouts so when it comes down to the higher blind levels there is still 6 left making it a shove / fold game. 

I tried to adjust my game to suit these tight games without sucess.

I belive there are some really good regs playing on £5 levels. evilpingu is the one i most fear never seems to lose.

Good luck with this thread i hope you get some answers. (and me).

thefa1lacy

In Response to DYMs Confidence Problems:

I usually play DYMs and love it. Played with some great players in the last 6 months at the levels I play e.g. Jac35, Jdsallstar, evilpingu, Heddoh, Edrich.  Learnt a lot playing with these people. I use to play 5.50s most of the time and had great results had a ROI of around 6-7. But recently I have hit a wall a big big brick one lol and my roi has dropped to 4%. So what did I do: - I moved back to the 3.30s dyms and have had great success roi over 7%. While playing these over the last few weeks I have played some 5.50s but I cant really win a game I have no confidence in them. My question is: - Does anyone have any tips on how to build my confidence back up so I can have another crack at these at the 5.50s. Or have you had the same experience at a certain level. Or should I just stick with 3.30s for another wee bit Mr 117
Posted by stuarty117

How many tables are you playing, because if your mentioning Heddoh and EvilPingu, you gotta remember these guys can't lose because they play so many tables. I studied Pingu for ages and played him several times and talked to him extensively, and I came to the conclusion he was shoving any K of any kind, any A of any kind and any PP. It doesn't matter if his K7o gets cracked because he's got £350 worth of DYM's on the go, so overall in the session he'll be up and then there's the points. If your only playing a few tables at a time, you can't beat these guys, because they may lose many mini battles but they always win the war..

devonfish5

Hi Stuart,

 i've played the £5 level in the past & found it a step up from the £3's, so first of all i'd say drop back down to the £3 level.

i think you've just as you say 'hit the brick wall' which happens to everyone at times & it can last for weeks & longer.

i've talked at length a couple of years ago about this with johnconnor, when i went on a downswing during my last dym challenge, & he said he went on a 7-8 week spell of losing, so it happens to the best of players.(i'm hoping jc won't mind me mentioning this).

you have to ride it out, dropping levels will help minimise the damage & help getting your confidence back by hopefully winning there & turning things back to normal, ie; winning again.

playing less tables is advisable too, i'm playing just 4 at the moment & loving it but back in the day 12-18 was a nightly number at the £3 level especially....where i was winning.

if u r playing 4-6 drop to 2-4 i'd say.

it's true that less players go out early at the £5 level compared to the £2 & £3 games so we may be playing a more aggressive looser game at the £5's, later in the levels especially, which could possibly work against us at times. we don't notice the little things when we are running normal or well, but it's when we are running bad which thankfully doesn't usually last that long, we suddenly very much notice the flips are going against us, the over pair losing to the underpairs, or our ak losing to aq etc etc.

i also think you need to be very well rolled for the £5's & £3's or higher obviously, as we have to be able to withstand losing 5 to 10 to 15 , buy-ins a session, when we have a bad night, which we all get.

i think a 100 buy-in b/r is very much the minimum needed to play any of these levels properly & 200 buy-ins would be advisable & preferable, for myself anyway.

any less, which is fine for many players i know, is ok, until we hit that downswing, then it suddenly becomes very noticable that we are under-rolled, as i'm thinking you possibly are Stuart. please feel free to correct me if i'm wrong...i quite often am  lol

anyway mate, thought i'd 'chip in' for what it's worth.

run better today,

best wishes, dev

ps; maybe table selection could be looked at...

      even when you play & who's playing when is worth thinking about, for the moment anyway.

pps; maybe even my old favourite right now... 'booking the win' is an option, just to get your b/r moving upwards again... it's also boosts your confidence too, which you need right now.

i feel unbeatable right now... ok so i'm only playing 4 games per session  lol  but i'm winning which is all that matters.. to me anyway.

Jac35

Please don't take this the wrong way Dev. I seem to be disagreeing with you a lot at the moment.

I don't believe that there is much difference at all in standard between the £3's and 5's. I've said this before to Dev, I think it's purely a mental thing. When you first move up a level the losses hurt more and our play can become more timid.

I started adding £30 Dyms a while ago and subconsciously I was playing slightly differently. I was playing the same players who I came up against at the £20's but not getting the same results. It was only when I stepped back a little and thought it through that I realised what I was doing.

Devs bankroll management is way better than mine. I think 100/200 buy ins for a level is excessive though. Dyms are very low variance and we can get away with having fewer buy ins for them than we could with mtts/cash.

Also 'booking the win' makes little sense to me. If we're playing well and winning then this is the time to capitalise. Our confidence is high and we're playing well. For me Dyms are all about volume. They're slow progress and so we really need to get the games in to be making them worthwhile.

I do agree with Dev on one thing

If you feel uncomfortable playing certain players at the 5's then let the lobby build and see if it's a game you want to play. The 5's run very frequently and you'll soon see a line up they you're happy to take on.

Stuart

An ROI of 4% is still very good. With that ROI you will be easily in the top 10% of players at the £5's. It is frustrating when our ROI drops a little but to have 4% when we feel it's a struggle shows that your game is sound.

Jac35

In Response to Re: DYMs Confidence Problems:

In Response to DYMs Confidence Problems : How many tables are you playing, because if your mentioning Heddoh and EvilPingu, you gotta remember these guys can't lose because they play so many tables. I studied Pingu for ages and played him several times and talked to him extensively, and I came to the conclusion he was shoving any K of any kind, any A of any kind and any PP. It doesn't matter if his K7o gets cracked because he's got £350 worth of DYM's on the go, so overall in the session he'll be up and then there's the points. If your only playing a few tables at a time, you can't beat these guys, because they may lose many mini battles but they always win the war..
Posted by thefa1lacy

Not sure that you should really be stating on the forum how you feel that someone plays. 

MattBates

In Response to Re: DYMs Confidence Problems:

In Response to DYMs Confidence Problems : How many tables are you playing, because if your mentioning Heddoh and EvilPingu, you gotta remember these guys can't lose because they play so many tables. I studied Pingu for ages and played him several times and talked to him extensively, and I came to the conclusion he was shoving any K of any kind, any A of any kind and any PP. It doesn't matter if his K7o gets cracked because he's got £350 worth of DYM's on the go, so overall in the session he'll be up and then there's the points. If your only playing a few tables at a time, you can't beat these guys, because they may lose many mini battles but they always win the war..
Posted by thefa1lacy

In Summary, someone helped you so you decided to post on the forum details on there shoving ranges. Nice going!

shakinaces

I'm always a fan of stepping down a level to rack up some confidence, so to OP, hitting the £3.30s for a session or two sounds like a good plan.

If you aim to then step back up to £5.50s on the back of a winning run, that should give you the confidence to have a good run where you are playing your best and hopefully run well at the higher level.
 
And, even if variance hits you in the first couple of games, the fact that you lose a few will hopefully not damage that confidence so badly, given you'll have a bigger bankroll (from the wins at £3.30 level).

ps is there a little bit of brag in the post, to claim a 4% ROI at the £5.50s?

Tikay10

Hi Stuart,

Just a few personal observations.

I honestly don't think there is much difference in ability levels between the £3 & £5 level. I have no data to prove that in NLH, but over a 4,000 game sample in PLO8 I can conclusively prove it. Around 70% of those games were at £3.30, 28% @ £5.50, & 2% @ £11. There is almost no difference in my results in £3 & £5. The amount of £11 games is not enough to form a reasonable sample saze.

A 4% ROI is pretty good, I'd say, especially if you get your Reward Points money on top of that. If you can make 4% long term, you should play more, it's better than working! But you need VOLUME.

Honestly, we see these threads almost daily.

NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF VARIANCE.

None of us are immune to it, it's a bill we all have to pay. That's probably all it is. Hang in there (or take a break), but variance is variance & you can't avoid it. Nor should you, because when she is in a good mood, we get the lot.
 
I'm no different to you, my confidence is fragile, & a bad night sets me doubting myself. Thats a GOOD thing, we must constantly self-examine our game to pick up on bad habits & leaks. You may have seen that thread yesterday, where the poor chap was blaming the world & his wife for bad results, but had ignored one thing - his own play!

You'll be fine m8, I'm sure.
 
Good luck.  

hagisboy

If you are still winning at 4% you have nothing to worry about, and likely winning more than a higher % at a lower level. If however your overall % has dropped to 4% due to your losing run then probs good to drop down for bankroll management. 

I don't see any difference in standard between the 3.30s and the 5.50s, but the nature of the DYMs is you will get screwed on the bubble a lot, especially when it is just ICM push/fold.

Personally don't see the need for 100 buy-ins at this level as varience is so much lower than standard sitngos.

As already alluded to, the cash for points in these make a massive difference to you overall win/loss rate. 

There are plenty of pros/grinders on other sites with rb deals who are breakeven but earn decent amounts just through sheer volume

devonfish5

no worries Jac35,

other players have said the same that they find the jump from £3 to £5 quite noticably harder, maybe for you it wasn't but it was for me.

i agree it probably became as much a mental battle for me, but then this is a mental game afterall.

i think the 100/200 buy ins is debateable but for the most part anything over 50 is fine...

untill we go on that downswing, which is why i say 200 is then preferable, as this will help cope with said downswing.

as to booking the win, again that's debateable. having played many hours & many tables on my last challenge with big swings both ways...booking the win is a shore-fire way of building up your bankroll, if that is your aim, not to mention your confidence.

playing long sessions & multi-tabling will arguably give you a better return, but as i haven't been booking the wins long enough yet, or got to playing the £3 level & possibly the £5's again exclusively, i can't give my honest point of view on this matter... just yet.

from my initial 'trial period' so far the results are almost unbelievable. yes, it's low level & early days but i can't see any reason why this couldn't be repeated even at the higher levels.. only time will tell on that one.

anyway, it's all about me here, which isn't why i posted.

 i came to offer a player who is by his own high standards struggling, and wanted to give my views on things, which aren't to everyones taste i know, but are there as an alternative available to Stuart, should he wish to try them.

Tikay10

In Response to Re: DYMs Confidence Problems:

If you are still winning at 4% you have nothing to worry about, and likely winning more than a higher % at a lower level. If however your overall % has dropped to 4% due to your losing run then probs good to drop down for bankroll management.  I don't see any difference in standard between the 3.30s and the 5.50s, but the nature of the DYMs is you will get screwed on the bubble a lot, especially when it is just ICM push/fold. Personally don't see the need for 100 buy-ins at this level as varience is so much lower than standard sitngos. As already alluded to, the cash for points in these make a massive difference to you overall win/loss rate.  There are plenty of pros/grinders on other sites with rb deals who are breakeven but earn decent amounts just through sheer volume
Posted by hagisboy

Great post Mr Hagis Bloke, post more please. That's just basic common-sense, but beautifully explained.

ALFIE123

 I have dropped from 11s to 5.50s as my confidence isnt low its just that i am playing soooo badly. Dropped a level so i can start winning again then i will move back to 11s.
As far as the £ 5.50 games are concerned i have found that they play so different to the £ 11.00 games.  Alot of limping and shoving with middle pair early in the blind levels. I cant compare to £ 3.30 as never played them..

If you scope my stats on DYMs it is up up down down down up.  Cr ap really as i guess i dont have really have a settled way of playing.

thefa1lacy

In Response to Re: DYMs Confidence Problems:

In Response to Re: DYMs Confidence Problems : In Summary, someone helped you so you decided to post on the forum details on there shoving ranges. Nice going!
Posted by MattBates

Ooh how funny. You must have imagined the part where 'someone' helped me??? Talking to Mr Pingu, is not him helping me anyway, more about his motivation to play the amount of games he does. (he last beat me, bizarrely, in a 30p Turbo, I think I had KQS and he got me with 22!)

The above posters are right, the difference between 3.30's and 5.50's is in your own mind, you play different, your thinking about losing £5.50 or seeing that 'you have won £10.' The more you play the 5.50's the more natural they become and you don't get the adrenaline pumping like crazy, which I now get when I venture to the 11's.

Personally I think all the talk about the jump between 3.30's and 5.50's shows how well a £4.40 DYM would go down, one that pays 4 points and wins £8. (Now watch everyone laugh at how silly a £4.40 DYM would be, just like before!)

day4eire76

In Response to Re: DYMs Confidence Problems:

In Response to Re: DYMs Confidence Problems : Ooh how funny. You must have imagined the part where 'someone' helped me??? Talking to Mr Pingu, is not him helping me anyway, more about his motivation to play the amount of games he does. (he last beat me, bizarrely, in a 30p Turbo, I think I had KQS and he got me with 22!) The above posters are right, the difference between 3.30's and 5.50's   is in your own mind, you play different, your thinking about losing £5.50 or seeing that 'you have won £10.' The more you play the 5.50's the more natural they become and you don't get the adrenaline pumping like crazy, which I now get when I venture to the 11's. Personally I think all the talk about the jump between 3.30's and 5.50's shows how well a £4.40 DYM would go down, one that pays 4 points and wins £8. (Now watch everyone laugh at how silly a £4.40 DYM would be, just like before!)
Posted by thefa1lacy

I don't think anybody laughed at the idea of a £4.40 level.

It was just pointed out that the traffic at dyms just doesn't need a £4 level.

A £4 level will not attract new players just take away from the players that are playing the £3 and £5 level.

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: DYMs Confidence Problems:

In Response to Re: DYMs Confidence Problems :  (he last beat me, bizarrely, in a 30p Turbo, I think I had KQS and he got me with 22!) Posted by thefa1lacy

Whatever you did (or didn't) learn from him, it doesn't sound like it's working out rite well for either of u !

Also the rake on those 30p games is pretty brutal

thefa1lacy

In Response to Re: DYMs Confidence Problems:

In Response to Re: DYMs Confidence Problems : Whatever you did (or didn't) learn from him, it doesn't sound like it's working out rite well for either of u ! Also the rake on those 60p games is pretty brutal
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

??? I'm a winning player mate? I'm loving my DYM's on Sky, as always. Never had a problem, and never posted I'm not running well?

Tikay10

In Response to Re: DYMs Confidence Problems:

In Response to Re: DYMs Confidence Problems : I don't think anybody laughed at the idea of a £4.40 level. It was just pointed out that the traffic at dyms just doesn't need a £4 level. A £4 level will not attract new players just take away from the players that are playing the £3 and £5 level.
Posted by day4eire76

Exactly that.

It just spreads the same amount of liquidity & traffic across three buy-in levels instead of two.
 
And if the £3 or £5 were withdrawn to "make space" for £4, there'd be a right hue & cry.

I'd love there to be more buy-in levels, (in PLO8 I'd love to see £15 & £20) but it ain't gonna happen for a long while yet. 

The existing levels work though, & don't need too much fiddling with imo. As ever, of course, everyone would like something different, its just the nature of the beast.   

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: DYMs Confidence Problems:

In Response to Re: DYMs Confidence Problems : ??? I'm a winning player mate? I'm loving my DYM's on Sky, as always. Never had a problem, and never posted I'm not running well?
Posted by thefa1lacy

wooossshhhhhh sorry, was just making an obviously poor joke that Pingus strat and you observing pingus strat resulted in you both meeting in a 30p dym.  Only messing.

thefa1lacy

In Response to Re: DYMs Confidence Problems:

In Response to Re: DYMs Confidence Problems : wooossshhhhhh sorry, was just making an obviously poor joke that Pingus strat and you observing pingus strat resulted in you both meeting in a 30p dym.  Only messing.
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

No worries mate. Me and Pingu met in a 30p that time because we had both opened up untold tables in order to hit the 800 millionth hand. I missed it, but thought it was possible cos on the the 797th millionth I did the same & I was literally one single hand out!

bbMike

In Response to Re: DYMs Confidence Problems:

In Response to Re: DYMs Confidence Problems : No worries mate. Me and Pingu met in a 30p that time because we had both opened up untold tables in order to hit the 800 millionth hand. I missed it, but thought it was possible cos on the the 797th millionth I did the same & I was literally one single hand out!
Posted by thefa1lacy

Why won't you reveal how many tables you were both playing?

Seems sensible to get mass coverage for something like that.

shakinaces

To be fair, if they were anything like me then they'd have started to lose count of how many tables were open around the time of the milestone hands!!

Not sure why you'd pick 30p DYM games for that purpose but, meh.

thefa1lacy

In Response to Re: DYMs Confidence Problems:

In Response to Re: DYMs Confidence Problems : Why won't you reveal how many tables you were both playing? Seems sensible to get mass coverage for something like that.
Posted by bbMike

Well because it's a secret, and it cannot be revealed until 50 years after the event, and even then the seal can only be broken by the Prime Minister of the day..

thefa1lacy

In Response to Re: DYMs Confidence Problems:

To be fair, if they were anything like me then they'd have started to lose count of how many tables were open around the time of the milestone hands!! Not sure why you'd pick 30p DYM games for that purpose but, meh.
Posted by shakinaces

All the pro's did it. JC was mass tabling 60p DYM's, Pingu was in the 30p's. So all the recs copied the pros! Sky made a bundle that day and the one player who hit the milestone of course..

shakinaces

In Response to Re: DYMs Confidence Problems:

In Response to Re: DYMs Confidence Problems : All the pro's did it. JC was mass tabling 60p DYM's, Pingu was in the 30p's. So all the recs copied the pros! Sky made a bundle that day and the one player who hit the milestone of course..
Posted by thefa1lacy

Yeah, that was a good promo

stuarty117

Thank you for all your replies

I usually play a 50 buy in strat and at the moment have over 100 buyins for 3.30s so around 60 for 5.50s.

Was just thinking of giving it a proper go again this weekend again.

My BR never really took a hit while my 5.50s went on a nosedive because the 3.30s and tourneys had great success.

Jac would it be ok if i sent u a pm would love to get a little feedback if you have time.

Jac35

In Response to Re: DYMs Confidence Problems:

Thank you for all your replies I usually play a 50 buy in strat and at the moment have over 100 buyins for 3.30s so around 60 for 5.50s. Was just thinking of giving it a proper go again this weekend again. My BR never really took a hit while my 5.50s went on a nosedive because the 3.30s and tourneys had great success. Jac would it be ok if i sent u a pm would love to get a little feedback if you have time.
Posted by stuarty117

Yes, off course mate

stuarty117

Tried having a small session couple last night and a few today

WINS 2

LOSSES 5

Ditched for time being back to 3.30s

devonfish5

GOOD LUCK with the £3's mate...

enjoyed banter last night.

run golden,dev

stuarty117

In Response to Re: DYMs Confidence Problems:

GOOD LUCK with the £3's mate... enjoyed banter last night. run golden,dev
Posted by devonfish5

Yea it was good fun last night, I went quite cause it arrived YUM YUM lol.

devonfish5

In Response to Re: DYMs Confidence Problems:

In Response to Re: DYMs Confidence Problems : Yea it was good fun last night, I went quite cause it arrived YUM YUM lol.
Posted by stuarty117

That's what I though.. ha ha

gl today