Please don't send this to area 51

hoyski

 I don't know how to get the hand up on here (so if anyone can help that would be great), so i'll talk you through it.

blinds 150 and 75 i'm on the small blind.

2 players limp in.

I have 88 and raise to 750  hoping to take the pot there and then.

big blind folds. 1st limper folds. 2nd limper calls.

flop comes down 4 K of spades and 9 of clubs.

I check. the other player bets 1050. I raise all-in 2,485. as i raised pre flop it's quite believable i am trapping with K A.

Anyhoo the other guy thinks about it for a few seconds lol and calls and I think oh deary me he's got K x and  think i've been caught out.

To my amazement he shows Ace 4 off suit

anyway next card ace h river 7 s

burtyboy

to post the hand, just get it up in your hand history and highlight it all, copy n paste on to here, be aware it won't look right until you actually post it.
it's a lot easier to see the play rather than a description.

hoyski

In Response to Re: Please don't send this to area 51:

to post the hand, just get it up in your hand history and highlight it all, copy n paste on to here, be aware it won't look right until you actually post it. it's a lot easier to see the play rather than a description.
Posted by burtyboy

cheers m8

here goes

Hand History #222159715 (16:37 09/01/2010)

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
hoyski	Small blind		75.00	75.00	3160.00
cobblers66	Big blind		150.00	225.00	1840.00
	Your hole cards	8 8
mrmaddison	Fold
kram121	Fold
dexieme	Call		150.00	375.00	2065.00
outspoken8	Call		150.00	525.00	3605.00
hoyski	Raise		675.00	1200.00	2485.00
cobblers66	Fold
dexieme	Fold
outspoken8	Call		600.00	1800.00	3005.00
Flop
		4 K 9
hoyski	Check
outspoken8	Bet		1050.00	2850.00	1955.00
hoyski	All-in		2485.00	5335.00	0.00
outspoken8	All-in		1955.00	7290.00	0.00
outspoken8	Unmatched bet		520.00	6770.00	520.00
hoyski	Show	8 8
outspoken8	Show	A 4
Turn
		A
River
		7
outspoken8	Win	Two Pairs, Aces and 4s	6770.00		7290.00

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Dudeskin8

Awful call and got lucky

hoyski

In Response to Re: Please don't send this to area 51:

Awful call and got luckyd by Dudeskin8

cheers m8, me personally i wouldn't have made that call. I mean after the check-raise what did he think he was beating? Unfortunately for me this happens so often you wouldn't believe it. oohhhh it's heading for area 51 lol. So we'll put it down to good strategy and bad luck (again)
area51 beckons lol

BlackFish3

i dont really get why you shove there. looks more like a flush draw from you than AK because i would expect AK to want to protect their hand rather than checking to check raise in case villain checks behind.

hoyski

In Response to Re: Please don't send this to area 51:

i dont really get why you shove there. looks more like a flush draw from you than AK because i would expect AK to want to protect their hand rather than checking to check raise in case villain checks behind.
Posted by BlackFish3

so you are telling me you would have called with a 4 after being check-raised. don't get me wrong it's a bit maverick by me but if he has not hit the king and say he hit the 9 i could get him off the second pair with the check raise also I could have raised with numerous hands that had him beat too many to mention and .I did have a bit of fold equity. surely you must appreciate that train of thought

burtyboy

not sure what the problem is, he's got an over card, a flush draw and a possible set, you've pushed with your pocket pair without a clue what your up against, as for the call, well i've seen a lot call an all in with worse hands than that! if he's got A 4 spades or Ak are you still complaining?
thats not to say i'm making the same call but theres enough danger in the flop for me to be just flat calling his bet or i'm laying it down to wait for a better spot with the pocket 8's.

hoyski

In Response to Re: Please don't send this to area 51:

not sure what the problem is, he's got an over card, a flush draw and a possible set, you've pushed with your pocket pair without a clue what your up against, as for the call, well i've seen a lot call an all in with worse hands than that! if he's got A 4 spades or Ak are you still complaining? thats not to say i'm making the same call but theres enough danger in the flop for me to be just flat calling his bet or i'm laying it down to wait for a better spot with the pocket 8's.
Posted by burtyboy

He's actually got A spades 4 clubs. so he would need runner runner to hit the nut flush.but my point is I made the raise to 5 times the big blind, i've check raised him what did he think he was beating? I could have had pocket kings and the flop made my set. I don't think he would have limped in with AK. and if he had then fair play he's caught me out. i'm not really complaining  just want to know what his thought process was?

MereNovice

I haven't done the maths completely because I can't see the bet sizes on your post of the hand.
However, it looks to me from your description that he is getting better than 3/1 on his money after you check raise him on the flop and that makes it a reasonable call if he thinks that part of your range are draws. He is, in fact, almost exactly 3/1 to win the hand after the flop even against your overpair.
If you are going to make a check-raise on the flop with a marginal hand you should consider whether you have fold equity.
Obviously, his pre-flop call is extremely loose.

burtyboy

In Response to Re: Please don't send this to area 51:

In Response to Re: Please don't send this to area 51 : He's actually got A spades 4 clubs. so he would need runner runner to hit the nut flush.but my point is I made the raise to 5 times the big blind, i've check raised him what did he think he was beating? I could have had pocket kings and the flop made my set. I don't think he would have limped in with AK. and if he had then fair play he's caught me out. i'm not really complaining   just want to know what his thought process was?
Posted by hoyski

don't think his thought process takes much working out, he's had a roll of the dice preflop with A4
then had another go on the flop, he misses on the flop but bets because you check no doubt he hoped for a fold, once you'd reraised all in, he's pot commited so shuvs it in hoping his Ace is high card and hits, i've come to realise lately that theres a lot that don't put much thought into their play, quite happy to get some money/chips in the middle and see what happens, trying to read these players is nigh on impossible, as in this case he could've been sat with absolutely anything! thing is in a small tourny or sit n go they've only gota hit 2-3 times to cash or on the cash tables a hit every half hour makes a profit.