slow rollers

craigcu12

i'm very short of info on how these play during the late stages of an MTT.

If he were to ship it i would be happy making the call with my AQ, his decision to just 3bet makes me wonder weather i should even call because what i see happening is i make a shove, get call and know i'm in need of either A or Q, possibly just even one of the A/ Q.

Q. do i take the gamble with AQ or do i leave it and wait for a better spot ?

loops447	Small blind		200.00	200.00	6140.00
KEITH1960	Big blind		400.00	600.00	2325.00
	Your hole cards	A Q
craigcu12	Raise		800.00	1400.00	11180.62
HENDRIK62	Fold
shane238	Fold
a	Raise		2000.00	3400.00	6520.00
loops447	Fold
KEITH1960	Fold
craigcu12	?

this player is not a much of a limper as some, also he did open raise KJs in the SB which gives me more confidence he has a poor hand here.
when he made the raise with KJs he goes on and check the 942 (2 diamond flop), weather it was because he is sure the opponent will hold a good hand i don't know and he hasn't limped on enough occasions for me to know weather it's a blocker bet or meaningful one
what is the best line to take on this hand call raise or fold?

swordsyboy	Small blind		150.00	150.00	6710.00
craigcu12	Big blind		300.00	450.00	15455.62
	Your hole cards	A 8
supamario	Fold
KEITH1960	Fold
sumner0754	Fold
	Call		300.00	750.00	10747.50
swordsyboy	Fold
craigcu12	Check
Flop
		6 3 4
craigcu12	Check
	Bet		300.00	1050.00	10447.50
craigcu12	?

hhyftrftdr

First hand will depend on table flow and in game reads but it looks like a pass to me.

Second hand, more than deep enough to call and go from there. Raising wouldn't be bad, but you're gonna struggle to get action from hands that we have in bad shape. His range is undefined so although playing out of position isn't ideal, keeping the pot modest should offset this somewhat.

MattBates

In Response to Re: slow rollers:

First hand will depend on table flow and in game reads but it looks like a pass to me. Second hand, more than deep enough to call and go from there. Raising wouldn't be bad, but you're gonna struggle to get action from hands that we have in bad shape. His range is undefined so although playing out of position isn't ideal, keeping the pot modest should offset this somewhat.
Posted by hhyftrftdr

It is very hard to advise on a hand like this with the information given. If the opponent has not played a hand since Tikay's 21st birthday its a snap fold, if its an aggro player its prob a fist pump shove and most likely the answer lies somewhere between the two. While we can work out a lot from bet sizing etc, this is only part of the information we need to make the decision. Its why picking we need to pick up as much information from players actions at the table to get a feel for the correct play. It wont 100% be the correct play as people can randomly bluff and aggro players can still have hands but by having more information we can make a more informed decision of the correct play.

Tikay10

In Response to Re: slow rollers:

In Response to Re: slow rollers : It is very hard to advise on a hand like this with the information given. If the opponent has not played a hand since Tikay's 21st birthday its a snap fold, if its an aggro player its prob a fist pump shove and most likely the answer lies somewhere between the two. While we can work out a lot from bet sizing etc, this is only part of the information we need to make the decision. Its why picking we need to pick up as much information from players actions at the table to get a feel for the correct play. It wont 100% be the correct play as people can randomly bluff and aggro players can still have hands but by having more information we can make a more informed decision of the correct play.
Posted by MattBates

Honestly Matt, is there any need for ageism?

At least people know when I'm standing up.   

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: slow rollers:

In Response to Re: slow rollers : It is very hard to advise on a hand like this with the information given. If the opponent has not played a hand since Tikay's 21st birthday its a snap fold, if its an aggro player its prob a fist pump shove and most likely the answer lies somewhere between the two. While we can work out a lot from bet sizing etc, this is only part of the information we need to make the decision. Its why picking we need to pick up as much information from players actions at the table to get a feel for the correct play. It wont 100% be the correct play as people can randomly bluff and aggro players can still have hands but by having more information we can make a more informed decision of the correct play.
Posted by MattBates

Yeah, Matt put it way better than me Craig! I had a similar hand in the Turbo last night, 3bet AQ in the cutoff and got cold 4bet from a very quiet, passive player in the big blind. Despite only leaving myself 14bb or so behind, felt it was absolutely the correct fold according to in game information. Maybe he played me like a kipper, who knows

Vs other players it would've been 5bet GII happy days type stuff.

AQ probably falls right in the middle in this OP situation if we are completely readless. AJ would be a simple fold, AK a simple GII, AQ bit of a grey area.

craigcu12

here are two hands which probably tell me all i need to know about these people really.
my notes on this person is he will do bluffs on some occasions but on other occassions he is a limper when in late position.

they might be playing hands very weakly but when i look at this one i'm thinking my own play is bad in a positional sense.
if i'm the first to do a bet i will put myself into a spot where he will either be trapping me with a monster or putting me in a nasty spot where i gamble massively due to a reraise getting made by himself.
so rather than complaining about it i should be accepting these cheap flops more often and just hope he does consistantly do min donks. also rather than be aggressive with my own strong ones maybe be passive with then two pairs that do hit.

craigcu12	Small blind		150.00	150.00	9137.50
POKEY2011	Big blind		300.00	450.00	6935.00
	Your hole cards	K 7
sherifoo7	Fold
bornablade	Fold
Benalman	Fold
	Call		300.00	750.00	18402.50
craigcu12	Call		150.00	900.00	8987.50
POKEY2011	Check
Flop
		10 8 9
craigcu12	Bet		450.00	1350.00	8537.50
POKEY2011	Fold
	Call		450.00	1800.00	17952.50
Turn
		5
craigcu12	Bet		900.00	2700.00	7637.50
	Call		900.00	3600.00	17052.50
River
		4
craigcu12	Bet		1800.00	5400.00	5837.50
	Call		1800.00	7200.00	15252.50
craigcu12	Show	K 7
	Show	9 J
	Win	Pair of 9s	7200.00		22452.5

what i am think is rather than build the pot up too big, maybe hands like 87s 22 and A2s could be limped in preflop because i'll be in position, have the last say and also because of it being a 3 way pot i'll not have to worry so much about them blocker bets that get make with nothing.

POKEY2011	Small blind		150.00	150.00	6785.00
sherifoo7	Big blind		300.00	450.00	14372.50
	Your hole cards	2 2
bornablade	Fold
Benalman	Fold
	Call		300.00	750.00	22152.50
craigcu12	Call		300.00	1050.00	5537.50
POKEY2011	Call		150.00	1200.00	6635.00
sherifoo7	Check
Flop
		2 8 3
POKEY2011	Check
sherifoo7	Check
	Check
craigcu12	Bet		600.00	1800.00	4937.50
POKEY2011	Fold
sherifoo7	Fold
	Fold
craigcu12	Muck
craigcu12	Win		1200.00		6137.50
craigcu12	Return		600.00	0.00	6737.50