You need to be logged in to your Sky Poker account above to post discussions and comments.
You might need to refresh your page afterwards.
Sky Poker forums will be temporarily unavailable from 11pm Wednesday July 25th.
Sky Poker Forums is upgrading its look! Stay tuned for the big reveal!
Scotland: With or Without?
All right, I'll get this out of the way right up front: this is not a thread to bash the English or the Scots (or anybody else for that matter) so if that's what you're bringing to the table, you can walk out that big ol' door marked EXIT. I'm an Aussie, and I don't come down on one side or the other just because I make my bed in Scotland. I still haven't made my mind up about the vote next Thursday.
I have lived here for most of my life, but unlike a lot of single-minded, nationalistic voters, I don't necessarily feel any great desire to see this country take off the training wheels... which is not to say that I think Scotland needs to be a part of the UK either.
I'm fairly sure that yes, we (Scotland) would wobble about for a bit, maybe fall off our bike and graze our knees once or twice, but then after a while we'd get our act together and ride off confidently towards the sunset and never look back. Yeah, I think if it's a majority vote in favour of independence, give it a decade and the United Kingdom will just be a distant memory through rose-tinted shades for the folks north of the border.
But is that how it should be? Do you even care?
I must admit - I've been telling everyone who'll listen that I'm going to vote yes just because... it will be fun to see what happens. Who wouldn't want a Thistle for their currency, because that's not cliche at all? And having to show my passport every time I take a trip to Newcastle will break up the journey nicely.
I guess it will be goodbye to Sky Poker as well. You know, being foreigners and all that jazz.
So, every cloud...
I have lived here for most of my life, but unlike a lot of single-minded, nationalistic voters, I don't necessarily feel any great desire to see this country take off the training wheels... which is not to say that I think Scotland needs to be a part of the UK either.
I'm fairly sure that yes, we (Scotland) would wobble about for a bit, maybe fall off our bike and graze our knees once or twice, but then after a while we'd get our act together and ride off confidently towards the sunset and never look back. Yeah, I think if it's a majority vote in favour of independence, give it a decade and the United Kingdom will just be a distant memory through rose-tinted shades for the folks north of the border.
But is that how it should be? Do you even care?
I must admit - I've been telling everyone who'll listen that I'm going to vote yes just because... it will be fun to see what happens. Who wouldn't want a Thistle for their currency, because that's not cliche at all? And having to show my passport every time I take a trip to Newcastle will break up the journey nicely.
I guess it will be goodbye to Sky Poker as well. You know, being foreigners and all that jazz.
So, every cloud...
Comments
having said that, what are the pragmatics re leaving? what happens to BBC scotland, your passport offfices / government departments. do 'we' just pull out completely and have the scottish government set up comparable agencies?
I'm a political noob.
Both sides of the campaign could have done a lot better in my opinion, especially the "no" campaign.
The no campaign has been pretty negative and incoherent.
The yes campaign has generally been positive and upbeat, but could have answered questions a bit better such as what currency would be used in an independent Scotland.
It's a lot more complex than most people would have first imagined.
Socially, I feel Scotland would be better off being independent. As a small country politicians would be a lot more accountable being on the "doorstep", and a lot more could be done to tackle issues like poverty.
It would also mean a permanent end to the tories in Scotland. In the last 50 years the conservatives have been in power 60%/70% of the time ruling Scotland despite the fact there is no appetite for the conservatives up here, currently they have 1mp from Scotland at Westminster. Under independence Scotland would have a fairer society, there wouldn't be the likes of the hated bedroom tax.
Economically it is really hard to say. Both sides have put up arguments saying it would be better/ or worse off. Truth is, we probably won't know until it happens. If there was a yes vote, it would take a while to see exactly what the impact would be on the economy in regards to things like financial services. Eg Companies with head offices in Scotland saying they would relocate to England. This of course could be a bluff, hard to say really.
But to do with things like the oil industry/ fishing industry/ renewable energies a lot more could be done under an indy Scotland. At the moment Scotland pay mores to the treasury than what we actually receive from westminister, although we do receive more than the rest of the population, England, Wales and NI.
Politically will be really interesting (if a yes vote) the tories will pretty much be dead and buried, you will have Labour Lib Dems (also in decline) SNP will continue to be a massive political force, but there will also be room for smaller parties such as the Greens.
It's going to get really interesting over the next week as we get closer to the vote.
https://twitter.com/AngrySalmond
Well, proposed, not really founded. And that Scotsman was a prime proponent of the Union in the first place.
EU - better alone
UK - better together
Hypocritical or what?
They're calling for an Independant Scotland, yet they want to stay in the EU and Sterling. Does not compute.
All this talk of billions of barrels of oil still there in the north sea sounds good until you see the person who made/commisioned this report is part of the yes group not very reassuring now is it? I know there is oil there but how much no one knows for certain or when it will run out what then?
Then we come too our currency.Its our pound! well yes its our pound while we are in the uk. Will the rest of the uk want too share a currency with us?When we turn our back on them! If it was the opposite way about would you allow it?
What about our national security? will we need too build our own security services as once we leave the union we will have none. Can Scotland as a start up country really afford too implement a new army,start up a new spy agency,and so on.also with no nuclear deterrent Scotland would be seen as an easy target without the might and protection of the uk and trident!
then we still have too set up border/customs control new passports new driving licences pretty much new everything can we really afford too or is that coming out the magic oil funds?
Then there is the jobs we will lose! I am pretty sure if we go independant that as soon as possible everything uk related i,e M.O.D,ship building contracts,defense contracts,research and so much more will be relocated too the rest of the uk as why would you want too help support a country who has turned they,re back on you?
and then there is membership of the eu the snp thinking we can just cut corners and become part instantly is a bit worrying too as there has been a few members that have said that we would have too reapply and follow all the procedures of a new country too gain membership which could take several years.
you could go on and on but..
For me there is just too much uncertainty and not enough clear and TRUSTWORTHY information too make a proper and informed choice.
If we do vote for independence my worries are where will all the start up money come from?
Will we start up with huge debts?
If not where will the money come from?
If so Who will we have these debts too?
Instead of breaking up the united kingdom lets make it Great Brittian again.
UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL!
In Response to Re: Scotland: With or Without? : Exactly the same could be said of the SNP. They're calling for an Independant Scotland, yet they want to stay in the EU and Sterling. Does not compute.
Posted by GaryQQQ
But that is consistent with the principles of subsidiarity & proportionality - they get more ability to make local decisions but still get the benefits of being part of the wider groups. Whereas it is argued that in their current situation they are overly governed by Westminster. The EU may not always get things right, but at least their constitution starts in the right place.
EU decision-making procedures are based on subsidiarity & proportionality, whereas Westminster's aren't
The principle of subsidiarity regulates the exercise of powers. It is intended to determine whether the Union can intervene or should let the Member States take action. In accordance with this principle, the Union may intervene in areas which do not fall within its exclusive competence only insofar as the objectives of the intended action cannot be sufficiently achieved by the Member States but can rather, by reason of the scale or effects of the proposed action, be better achieved at Union level.
The principle of proportionality is the second major principle governing the exercise of powers. By virtue of this principle, action taken by the Union, in terms of its form and content, does not exceed what is required to achieve the objectives set out in the Constitution.
& Scotland would probably be as interesting for the Chinese as England - although you maybe need another good football team or two.
"We’ve discovered that Britain is easily replaceable in China’s European foreign policy," said the editorial in the newspaper’s Chinese edition. "Moreover, Britain is no longer any kind of ‘big country,’ but merely a country of old Europe suitable for tourism and overseas study, with a few decent football teams."
PS I am not a Scot & I don't have a view on what is the right answer for Scotland. However I do feel the level of argument has been poor, particularly from the "better Together" camp who seemed to spend most of their time threatening Scotland instead of working with it.I kind of hope that the vote does at least put the question to bed for at least another generation, regardless of the outcome. At the moment it sort of feels as though the outcome will be close enough that Alex Salmond will be harping on for another crack next year (and the next year..) if the 'No' just about sneaks the vote next week.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29226235
T o start with you have to ask WHATS IN IT FOR THEM.
as far as the SNP is concerned its INDEPENDENCE
for LABOUR, we send 42 MPs to westminster, so LABOUR would find it difficult to gain a majority without their scottish MPs
For the TORIES, they see scotland as the last vestigies of empire, something to control.
then they fear the loss of influence, no more seat at the UN security council, they would thenbe seen for what they are, a small island in the north atlantic.
TORIES want to leave the EU, but only to combat the rise of UKIP.
then we have TRIDENT, a weapon system that cost £110 billion, but WE CANNOT USE.
They say its a DETTERENT, but it cannot stop anyone firing a missile at us,So it then becomes a FIRST STRIKE WEAPON,
with everyone saying we would never fire first, SO ITS USELESS.
THERE HAS BEEN SO MANY 1/2 TRUTHS AND DOWNRIGHT LIES.
on pensions for instance, THEY ARE SAFE.
then START UP COSTS, they are a one off payment, about £500 million, but that is a ONE OFF.
On the OIL various estimates say 30 to 50 years worth of oil left in the NORTH SEA. however, the oil in the CLAIR RIDGE
has never been tapped, because its in shallow waters off the clyde, and all westminster governments will not issue the licences
to exploit those reserves, SOME TRILLION BARRELS.
if they allowed drilling in the clyde, the whole area would have FULL EMPLOYMENT,
including ship building, roads, etc.
On the POUND, UK GDP MINUS SCOTTISH GDP, would leave a massive loss to UK government, the cost of borrowing would go up, interest rates would rise, mortgages would go up.
WHEN 3 MAIN PARTIES, CBI,EVERY NEWS PAPER EVEN THE BBC, were on the side of NO,
you must ask yourself WHATS IN IT FOR THEM ?
I could go on for ever why scotland should be independent.
but as the 14th richest country, we can and should stand alone, and show the way for others in these isles.
Tory rule is at an end, I THINK THE ONLY BANKS TO CLOSE ARE FOOD BANKS.
IMPORTANT NOTE.
this is not anti-english, but ANTI ENGLISH ESTABLISHMENT.
With all the scandals, 2nd homes, house of lords, child abuse the establishment is rotton to the core, and it needs to be got rid off.
On the flip side... with the 'No' outcome always a strong possibility, the 'English' Tories and other Westminster politicians couldn't really be spouting a whole load of 'do one, Scotland, we don't need you' type messages when it is likely that they will still be part of the UK - they had to stay on message of wanting to remain together in order to still have a (sort of) cohesive country moving forward.
In some ways the Tories in particular must be divided, when it is likely that they will have an easier path to power in the rUK with the left-bias Scottish MPs taken out of the equation.
ps it is really only English issues with MP scandals? Are all the Scottish MPs clean of any involvement in everything that is wrong at Westminster?
Religion
Is there a divide between Catholics & Protestants in Scotland as there is in N.I. ?
Will one religion naturally vote NO and one YES?
*Disclaimer*
I'm neither Scottish or religious so forgive my ignorance.