message to colchester and those on his table

craigcu12

i am sorry for the way i reacted to after going out to the limped pot.

i was shaking in anger and fealt like needing to let it out.
sorry for the abuse and i should just learn to control tilt

as for the hand well i should have just did min bets mself because calling them all were what made me unknown where i was.

ecksmen	Small blind		500.00	500.00	34368.75
craigcu12	Big blind		1000.00	1500.00	15411.25
	Your hole cards	J 9
mrtee	Fold
colchester	Call		1000.00	2500.00	19110.00
AMBER58	Fold
ecksmen	Call		500.00	3000.00	33868.75
craigcu12	Check
Flop
		A J J
ecksmen	Check
craigcu12	Check
colchester	Bet		2000.00	5000.00	17110.00
ecksmen	Call		2000.00	7000.00	31868.75
craigcu12	Call		2000.00	9000.00	13411.25
Turn
		6
ecksmen	Check
craigcu12	Check
colchester	Bet		5000.00	14000.00	12110.00
ecksmen	Fold
craigcu12	Call		5000.00	19000.00	8411.25
River
		8
craigcu12	Check
colchester	Bet		9500.00	28500.00	2610.00
craigcu12	All-in		8411.25	36911.25	0.00
colchester	Unmatched bet		1088.75	35822.50	3698.75
craigcu12	Show	J 9
colchester	Show	J 10
colchester	Win	Three Jacks	35822.50		39521.25

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to message to colchester and those on his table:

i should have just did min bets mself because calling them all were what made me unknown where i was. 

Not even you can avoid going broke here Craig. 

IDONKCALLU

not even a squeeeeze shove spot ?   punish the limpers

Slykllist

How can you get abusive here, you were meant to lose!

Lambert180

Played perfect, ul

craigcu12

In Response to Re: message to colchester and those on his table:

How can you get abusive here, you were meant to lose!
Posted by Slykllist

but i'm meant to fold pre.
sadly this person opted to limp in preflop rather than raise.

saying i was meant to loose that is like saying i was meant to win with 32s
no of course not i was meant to fold pre but i won because i was allowed

lewis274	Small blind		75.00	75.00	1318.75
craigcu12	Big blind		150.00	225.00	6455.00
	Your hole cards	3 2
haylez83	Fold
limp	Call		150.00	375.00	2390.00
92boi	Fold
x	Call		150.00	525.00	6123.75
lewis274	Call		75.00	600.00	1243.75
craigcu12	Check
Flop
		A 7 4
lewis274	Check
craigcu12	Check
limp	Check
x	Bet		300.00	900.00	5823.75
lewis274	Fold
craigcu12	Raise		600.00	1500.00	5855.00
limp	Fold
x	Call		300.00	1800.00	5523.75
Turn
		8
craigcu12	Bet		600.00	2400.00	5255.00
x	Call		600.00	3000.00	4923.75
River
		6
craigcu12	Bet		600.00	3600.00	4655.00
x	Call		600.00	4200.00	4323.75
craigcu12	Show	3 2
x	Muck	10 A
craigcu12	Win	Flush to the Ace	4200.00		8855.00

DOHHHHHHH

Craig you have to be a level. 

jordz16

cant see any reason to be abusive though, just a tough spot where most of the time your gonna lose a lot of chips.

Phantom66

Craig,

You have me confused.

You appear to be saying J9s is never in your calling range from the BB and you only lost because it was a limped pot?

1. I think that is leak right there - plenty of times you can call/raise with J9s either when very deep stacked or when getting shallow and there is a lot of min raise stealing going on. Most of the time you can bin it sure, but there are plenty of situations where it is good enough to get involved. All depends on table and player dynamics.

2. Getting to see a flop with any hand and hitting trips is great. You were just ul. Normally in those situations it is the limper with A6 or something going broke and wishing they had raised.

hhyftrftdr

Craig, you seem to have major beef with limpers. It's just part and parcel of the game. Bet you were loving when you got a free flop with J9s, 15bb and flopped huge. Just unfortunate to be outkicked this time, but you're never getting away from the hand. No need to kick off at other players though, it's their money they can play how they desire.

FWIW, I think we can shove J9 pre depending on the table dynamic. Should probably bet way more on the river with the 32s as well.

MattBates

Given the line Colchester has taken (limping then firing three streets starting off into 2 opponents), is there not an argument for calling river rather than shoving given Jx makes up a decent part of a limpers range? Or am I turning into a nit? 

I have to agree with the other guys, standard play would be our opponent to min open and us to peel from the BB.

We cant do anything about how opponents play, if we feel their plays are non optimal then its down to us to come up with optimal strategies to beat them. Getting mad about it doesn't do us any good!

hhyftrftdr

Villain sets him all in on the river Matt. Read the bloody hand properly

MattBates

In Response to Re: message to colchester and those on his table:

Villain sets him all in on the river Matt. Read the bloody hand properly
Posted by hhyftrftdr

HH are hard!

GELDY

You forgot to press your

#runlikegeldy button Craig

https://www.skypoker.com/secure/poker/sky_lobby?action=show_static&page=poker_community_forums&plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3a57795ac2-1793-4377-b4cf-e124b0f555f4Forum%3afe44ed5b-a5bb-4eec-b300-cc40d1b3a210Discussion%3a002fb7c5-c43c-48c3-9df0-6e6d86588851&plckFindPostKey=Cat:57795ac2-1793-4377-b4cf-e124b0f555f4Forum:fe44ed5b-a5bb-4eec-b300-cc40d1b3a210Discussion:002fb7c5-c43c-48c3-9df0-6e6d86588851Post:572f00c9-7dda-4029-94ea-cacb6ab36e02

Sir-Gary

when he limps and you see a flop you go broke what else?

Had he min raised like he probably should, then you should call and see a flop and go broke.

About the only way you could be saved was if he pushed all in pre flop. Thats probably not the optimum play so It was your turn to be cold decked, and heres me thinking it was just me it happened to :-)

IDONKCALLU

so is it just me that see a limp sb just calls i see this as weakness   so i am shoving all in 16 bigs to pick up a extra 2 bb   i think this is the right move and im not just saying that coz i can see the hh

Matt237

Whats wrong with jamming pre here Craig?

stuarty117

Also if you were shaking in anger maybe poker is not for you its time to find another hobby.

GELDY

In Response to Re: message to colchester and those on his table:

when he limps and you see a flop you go broke what else? Had he min raised like he probably should, then you should call and see a flop and go broke. About the only way you could be saved was if he pushed all in pre flop. Thats probably not the optimum play so It was your turn to be cold decked, and heres me thinking it was just me it happened to :-)
Posted by Sir-Gary

just to say i love that icon

although i need to change my glasses as it seems to look like a fish, not the great white shark that you actually are.

craigcu12

In Response to Re: message to colchester and those on his table:

Whats wrong with jamming pre here Craig?
Posted by Matt237

maybe that is where the issue lies.
if i had say 8 BB then i would be shipping lots but here i have 15 so i'm thinking a check is better.

if i were to shove i'm certain he is going to be calling things that are ahead, then again i do see lots of things folded too and J10 is more than likely a one itself. the bubble had now burst so head prizes were no longer any use, laddering was there aim.

merhaps any two cards between K and 9 i shove because it's only really AK-A9 and KQ-Kj i'm really in danger from but TBH i see weak aces weak kings and middle suited cards more often than i see AK-AJ or KQ.

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: message to colchester and those on his table:

In Response to Re: message to colchester and those on his table : maybe that is where the issue lies. if i had say 8 BB then i would be shipping lots but here i have 15 so i'm thinking a check is better. if i were to shove i'm certain he is going to be calling things that are ahead, then again i do see lots of things folded too and J10 is more than likely a one itself. the bubble had now burst so head prizes were no longer any use, laddering was there aim. merhaps any two cards between K and 9 i shove because it's only really AK-A9 and KQ-Kj i'm really in danger from but TBH i see weak aces weak kings and middle suited cards more often than i see AK-AJ or KQ.
Posted by craigcu12

Blinding down to 8bb in a BH before chucking your stack about is a dangerous game.

And if you were just in the money, then laddering isn't really a consideration yet as the jumps are so small initially. If anything, winning another head prize is more valuable in terms of the £££ than going up two pay jumps and busting.

craigcu12

this time they didn't get to see the flops they wanted cheaply. so i might as well do it.

a	Small blind		50.00	50.00	6932.50
craigcu12	Big blind		100.00	150.00	2640.00
	Your hole cards	10 J
banger1207	Fold
c	Call		100.00	250.00	4215.00
b	Call		100.00	350.00	5440.00
bearlyther	Fold
a	Call		50.00	400.00	6882.50
craigcu12	All-in		2640.00	3040.00	0.00
c	Fold
b	Fold
a	Fold
craigcu12	Muck
craigcu12	Win		400.00		400.00
craigcu12	Return		2640.00	0.00	3040.00

Lambert180

No offence but that's a terrible shove, 16xBB is massively different to 26xBB. Your risk/reward here is terrible cos u don't win that much and when u get a call gl being better than 30% equity.

We can either raise to like 450-500 (imo) or take the free flop. I prefer the free flop option cos I wanna be multiway with this hand and pots already plenty big enough to get stacks in cos of all the limpers

MattBates

I have seen in a few posts you do a certain play and based on your sample of 1 you decide whether a play is good or not.

seanallen

Does any one know the actual formula you use for working out the EV of a shove?

Say in the above example if we expect to get folds 2/3 of the time and have 35% average equity when we get called, how do we go about working out how many chips we win/ lose on average by shoving.

66% of the time we win 400 chips.
33% of the time we lose 5500/3 = 1850 - 2600 (our stack) so - 750

So it makes the shove + EV by 50 chips?

Is that right?

seanallen

The numbers are probably wrong, and I kind of plucked the FE and hand equity out of the air, but I mean is the actual formula for working it out right?

hhyftrftdr

Our equity in this spot, in general, I'd imagine to be closer to 40-45% over a good sample.

But it is a bizarre shove Craig, and as Matt says, you do a certain move once and seem to think it must be a successful play or the most optimal line.

More than happy to take a free flop here, great multi way hand.