Should i have shoved on the flop... was i wrong to slow play?

pokerpo11y

Hi guys

i was playing a MTT and in this situation.... i was wondering whether i should have pushed on the flop and risk not being paid much or slow played as i did below seeing as it was a rainbow board. i took the following action because of the size of my stack compared to the blinds. Any advice what so ever would be great thanks

Alex

ActionCardsAmountPotBalancepokerpo11ySmall blind 100.00100.001075.00Puma80Big blind 200.00300.002410.00 Your hole cardsQ10   InnerspaceFold    galvo68Fold    NOSBIG15Call 200.00500.001270.00Marty642Fold    pokerpo11yCall 100.00600.00975.00Puma80Check    Flop  J9K   pokerpo11yCheck    Puma80Bet 200.00800.002210.00NOSBIG15Fold    pokerpo11yCall 200.001000.00775.00Turn  8   pokerpo11yCheck    Puma80Bet 200.001200.002010.00pokerpo11yCall 200.001400.00575.00River  3   pokerpo11yAll-in 575.001975.000.00Puma80Raise 1150.003125.00860.00pokerpo11yShowQ10   Puma80ShowJ7   Puma80WinFlush to the Jack3125.00 3985.00

OMahonyO

With your stack size, you need a double up quick so you need all the chips in on this hand, and pushing on the flop is not the way to do it.

I think flop check call is fine, turn check is fine also, but when you get bet into on turn you may as well shove the rest in as whatever villain has or is drawing to, he`s prob calling.

You sometimes have to take these chances when so short. Shoving the flop and winning the hand coz villain folds still leaves you very short.

BigBluster

It's a rainbow board, shoving the flop is crazy. In this case you should be value betting to to re-e-e-ee-el the villain in and you did that.

Now the sums.
Shoving on the flop, assuming a fold, equates to picking up 600 chips 100% of the time, meaning you will have a chip stack at the end of 1675.
As you were 95% favourite, value betting equates to a chip stack of 3125 chips 95% of the time and 0 chips 5% of the time.

This means your expected chip holding by value betting is 2,700. Your expected chip holding by shoving is 1675.

It's absolutely clear cut - the shove is a terrible play.

pokerpo11y

great thanks for the quick responses.... i value every bit of advice on here so cheers. i just have to say that was bad luck runner runner? 

YoungUn

Fold/Shove Pre-Flop IMO, I don't like to limp with 5BB behind. We're usually better off folding here and open-shoving with any 2 at the next opportunity.

I like pushing first to act here. We've got 2 players that could look us up, NOSBIG could easily have limped with KQ/KJ/KT and they're always calling us with those hands. I even think the J7 might call us, because we're so short it will look to most people like we're getting desperate. If we're not open-shoving, then we have to check-call as the check-raise looks far too strong. As others have said, check-shove the turn will be your next play.

In answer to your question, yes you just got unlucky, but unfortauntely these things happen in poker. Dust yourself off and play the next tourney.

Now, a question to you if you don't mind? How did you copy the Hand History into the thread? Was it a simple copy/paste jobbie? Because I just tried that for my thread and it didn't copy over properly

NColley

He bought a very cheap river card - 200 into 1000, i think this is where you needed to raise as the spade brought a flush draw into the equation.

WildDog

You were nearly 92% favourite on the flop, you just got unlucky. You were so short stacked that wou want full value for your hand and you played it fine, you could have check raised allin on the turn but he would always call you. The hand played itself really.

pokerpo11y

thanks guys

To young un... yeh i just dragged my mouse of everything to highlight and simply copied and pasted it ive seen others do it. i value your input because iv seen you post on so many threads (Y)

CLIOKID

Flop: Check-call.

Turn: Check-ship.

Simples.

unknown_username

 It's one of those .. where  you could have played different ways  but your only way of winning the hand would have been Allin after the flop !... Sure  check call after the flop, nothing wrong but the problem comes on the turn.. because unknown to you he's actually playing his hand very well with 2nd best pair , a flush draw and a Straight flush draw  and (although it wouldn't beat you) he has a middle pin straight draw !! 
The point being unless this was the WSOP he's not passing after the turn, so even the reality is you did nothing wrong , you were just  on the end of a unavoidable crash ...  We all get them.. PAIN !!

glk ..  benny
 Just put it behind you,  it's a part of the game, don't dwell on beats !!