Worst day ever....

HartshorN

I'm actually so mad at the moment because my luck is just horrible!

I've lost so much, i've had no cards! even in omaha i've had nothing but when i do have a bit this is what happens.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
HartshorN	Small blind		15.00	15.00	1045.00
pmallin	Big blind		30.00	45.00	1910.00
	Your hole cards	K A A 9
BIGBENE	Call		30.00	75.00	3300.00
TONIO22	Call		30.00	105.00	1730.00
paparon	Call		30.00	135.00	1530.00
HartshorN	Raise		165.00	300.00	880.00
pmallin	Fold
BIGBENE	Call		150.00	450.00	3150.00
TONIO22	Call		150.00	600.00	1580.00
paparon	Call		150.00	750.00	1380.00
Flop
		9 3 Q
HartshorN	Bet		750.00	1500.00	130.00
BIGBENE	Fold
TONIO22	Fold
paparon	Call		750.00	2250.00	630.00
Turn
		3
HartshorN	All-in		130.00	2380.00	0.00
paparon	Call		130.00	2510.00	500.00
HartshorN	Show	K A A 9
paparon	Show	Q 10 4 K
River
		J
paparon	Win	Straight to the King	2510.00		3010.00

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
darich	Small blind		15.00	15.00	2395.00
TONIO22	Big blind		30.00	45.00	1610.00
	Your hole cards	5 A 10 10
paparon	Fold
HartshorN	Raise		60.00	105.00	1720.00
pmallin	Fold
BIGBENE	Call		60.00	165.00	2310.00
darich	Call		45.00	210.00	2350.00
TONIO22	Call		30.00	240.00	1580.00
Flop
		Q K J
darich	Check
TONIO22	Check
HartshorN	Bet		60.00	300.00	1660.00
BIGBENE	Call		60.00	360.00	2250.00
darich	Fold
TONIO22	Fold
Turn
		J
HartshorN	Bet		90.00	450.00	1570.00
BIGBENE	Call		90.00	540.00	2160.00
River
		K
HartshorN	Bet		90.00	630.00	1480.00
BIGBENE	Raise		810.00	1440.00	1350.00
HartshorN	Call		720.00	2160.00	760.00
BIGBENE	Show	8 K J 7
HartshorN	Show	5 A 10 10
BIGBENE	Win	Full House, Kings and Jacks	2160.00		3510.00

HartshorN	Small blind		10.00	10.00	1970.00
pmallin	Big blind		20.00	30.00	1950.00
	Your hole cards	K K 7 5
BIGBENE	Call		20.00	50.00	2050.00
darich	Fold
TONIO22	Call		20.00	70.00	1990.00
paparon	Call		20.00	90.00	1190.00
HartshorN	Call		10.00	100.00	1960.00
pmallin	Check
Flop
		7 K 2
HartshorN	Bet		20.00	120.00	1940.00
pmallin	Fold
BIGBENE	Raise		90.00	210.00	1960.00
TONIO22	Fold
paparon	Fold
HartshorN	Call		70.00	280.00	1870.00
Turn
		6
HartshorN	Check
BIGBENE	Check
River
		A
HartshorN	Check
BIGBENE	Bet		70.00	350.00	1890.00
HartshorN	Call		70.00	420.00	1800.00
BIGBENE	Show	8 4 9 4
HartshorN	Show	K K 7 5
BIGBENE	Win	Flush to the King	420.00		2310.00

I know there was some poor play by me paying them off, but i really wanted to know that my nuts had been outdrawn on the very next card. Theres plenty more little one,s but cba to post.

Will just throw this one in there aswell even though its Hold'em

oneil10	Small blind		15.00	15.00	6125.00
HartshorN	Big blind		30.00	45.00	2020.00
	Your hole cards	7 A
manner	All-in		23.12	68.12	0.00
Jacksonatr	Fold
cyberdog	Call		30.00	98.12	1815.00
stoneman1	Call		30.00	128.12	1965.00
oneil10	Call		15.00	143.12	6110.00
HartshorN	Check
Flop
		7 6 7
oneil10	Check
HartshorN	Check
cyberdog	Check
stoneman1	Check
Turn
		8
oneil10	Check
HartshorN	Bet		60.00	203.12	1960.00
cyberdog	Call		60.00	263.12	1755.00
stoneman1	Call		60.00	323.12	1905.00
oneil10	Fold
River
		5
HartshorN	Check
cyberdog	Bet		161.56	484.68	1593.44
stoneman1	All-in		1905.00	2389.68	0.00
HartshorN	Fold
cyberdog	All-in		1593.44	3983.12	0.00
stoneman1	Unmatched bet		150.00	3833.12	150.00
manner	Show	Q 10
cyberdog	Show	Q 3
stoneman1	Show	4 K
stoneman1	Win	Flush to the King	3833.12		3983.12

This was the 1k snowball H/H, so i was wanting someone to try and steal on the flop, but it never happened and so this occured which summed my day up.

Talon

  You need to be very careful in playing those omaha hands because in the first 2 cases you were raising preflop with marginal to poor holdings and in the other you limped in with a bad hand. It is the over playing of bad holdings that gets people into trouble in omaha. Your best bet is to see the flop cheaply with those hands and make your moves if you hit not just try to bluster your way thruogh the pot whether you hit or not. Having 2 starting hands is good enough for a limp but not good enough to pot commit yourself with. If you tighten your range up a bit then you will have even more success.   Good luck at the tables

DiggerMan

In Response to Re: Worst day ever....:

  You need to be very careful in playing those omaha hands because in the first 2 cases you were raising preflop with marginal to poor holdings and in the other you limped in with a bad hand. It is the over playing of bad holdings that gets people into trouble in omaha. Your best bet is to see the flop cheaply with those hands and make your moves if you hit not just try to bluster your way thruogh the pot whether you hit or not. Having 2 starting hands is good enough for a limp but not good enough to pot commit yourself with. If you tighten your range up a bit then you will have even more success.   Good luck at the tables
Posted by Talon

Hi Talon
I'm still trying to get to grips with the strengths of starting hands and what people do, or should be, raising with! Here you say the first two hands are marginal to poor holdings. In the second case I agree (sort of) but what about the first? OK it isn't double suited and three of one suit isn't ideal but it still seems to be fairly strong! Is this where I'm going wrong? And are there ANY hands really worthy of a pre flop raise? lol

Talon

It is all to do with nuber of hands as well as there relative strength. With Ad As Kd 9d   you are only playing 2 hands  AA and AK suited, the 9 is a nothing card in this hand.  While these are both strong hands they are only good if they hit . In all cases in omaha the hand is really played from the flop onwards , all preflop raising is just to build the pot up. You can raise with any holding if you want to but the firing off of a continuation bet for most of your stack when you have totally missed is just asking for trouble. This is just holdem thinking wrongly transferred to omaha.

   Ideally you want a starting hand with at least 3 playable hands in it. I favour seeing the flop cheap and then making your move on the flop. Then you should be betting with a sensible holding, that is OESD, nut flush draw flopped flush or straight etc. Overall on this site if you ever see big preflop raising or 3 betting pre flop then 90% of the time you can put them on AA or KK being majorly overplayed. You should be calling these preflop with good connecting and flushing cards.As you can see in hand 1, despite the big raise preflop there were still 4 to the flop on a 5 handed table. The true value of a hand is its ability to play through the streets and this can never be known preflop.People need to get out of this habit of big preflop raises and then continuation betting. I have played a lot of hands and watched even more and the general rule i have come up with is, big preflop raising leads to winning a small pot or losing a big pot.

  If you are looking for a good starting hand then something like 9 10 J Q  preferably double suited is a much better hand to look for because you are playing 6 nut drawing hands. The more nut drawing hands you have the more chance of hitting the flop and therefore the more chance of winning.

DiggerMan

Thanks Talon, brilliantly explained as usual! I have never seen the advantage in making big pre flop raises when the when there are so many possible variations when the flop comes down! It's almost like playing 7 2 in hold em and expecting to hit  7 7 2 on the flop! Even the best starting hand (and there seems to be plenty of debate as to what exactly that is) can be rendered useless as soon as the flop comes down! Thanks again for your reply....I'll Be Back!

Tikay10

Guys,

If you are struggling with Omaha basics, try THIS

Or....THIS

mr_mbro

Hi Harts,
I've just re-read this thread and i'm going to pick up something that hasn't been covered.
On the hand with kk75, you say that you wanted to see what your NUTS hand had been outdrawn with, sorry to burst your bubble, but your hand was NOT the nuts as there were 3 hearts on the flop, therefore the nuts is the flush and you were well behind.(dont forget you MUST use 2 and ONLY 2 cards from your hand).
My adice would be that you look as though you are not thinking about others possible holdings on the different streets, and as this is a drawing game it is difficult to get people off them draws(in PLO) as the bets cant that massive unless multi pots.
Please im not trying to put you down m8, just my obseravtion and advice.

col

Ps on the nlhe hand why give them a chance to catch up, bet out.
I do know what your going through, when on a bad run you look to maximise your good hands but little and often is a better way, as it seems that if you dont bet people get their cards, its very frustrating.

Talon

In Response to Re: Worst day ever....:

Hi Harts, I've just re-read this thread and i'm going to pick up something that hasn't been covered. On the hand with kk75, you say that you wanted to see what your NUTS hand had been outdrawn with, sorry to burst your bubble, but your hand was NOT the nuts as there were 3 hearts on the flop, therefore the nuts is the flush and you were well behind.(dont forget you MUST use 2 and ONLY 2 cards from your hand). My adice would be that you look as though you are not thinking about others possible holdings on the different streets, and as this is a drawing game it is difficult to get people off them draws(in PLO) as the bets cant that massive unless multi pots. Please im not trying to put you down m8, just my obseravtion and advice. col Ps on the nlhe hand why give them a chance to catch up, bet out. I do know what your going through, when on a bad run you look to maximise your good hands but little and often is a better way, as it seems that if you dont bet people get their cards, its very frustrating.
Posted by mr_mbro

  That hand played out exactly the way it should have. Top set against a bad flush the chips should never really be flying out there. Possibly a missed opportunity by not potting it on the turn to push him off but overall pretty standard stuff.Both players did well to retain pot control and not get carried away with marginal holdings. So i think we should be looking at that hand as a success for losing the absolute minimum when we have hit the board quite hard but need a redraw.Spot on assessment by you as well col.

HartshorN

Yeh that's actually my bad, i didnt mean nuts i just meant flopping top set but it's still not enough, hey thats omaha for you.

Like i've posted about im pretty embarrased with my "rage" had a few more bad beats put took the latest on the chin and got on with the game, it's turned out good so far.

Thanks for the advice lads.

webby234

keep going hartshorn and your luck will change, trust me! 2 weeks ago i saw no light at the end of the tunnel, but now i am back!!!

HartshorN

Won't ever stop mate, love it too much

HartshorN

Won't ever stop mate, love it too much

unknown_username

Talon - you just made omaha alot clearer to me, TY for that excellent post.

simonnatur

In Response to Re: Worst day ever....:

Talon - you just made omaha alot clearer to me, TY for that excellent post.
Posted by Deadluck

I hate raising with AA hands unless they are super premium double suited or with side cards to make a nut str8. I prefer otherwise to play them pretty much for set value. Unless of course I can get all or most of my stack in preflop.

simonnatur

In Response to Re: Worst day ever....:

In Response to Re: Worst day ever.... : I hate raising with AA hands unless they are super premium double suited or with side cards to make a nut str8. I prefer otherwise to play them pretty much for set value. Unless of course I can get all or most of my stack in preflop.
Posted by simonnatur

A last thought, you need a much larger bankroll to play same stakes omaha game versus hold,em as game has inherently much greater variance.  If you are playing well within bankroll you can laugh off ridiculous outdraws (upto a point)

Bit of a cliche but when running like this best to take a break or move to lower stakes.

Tikay10

In Response to Re: Worst day ever....:

In Response to Re: Worst day ever.... : I hate raising with AA hands unless they are super premium double suited or with side cards to make a nut str8. I prefer otherwise to play them pretty much for set value. Unless of course I can get all or most of my stack in preflop.
Posted by simonnatur

This!

There is a total misunderstanding to the value of A-A-x-x in Omaha, & more people stack off with this hand than any other.