Sorting out sitting out......

F_Ivanovic

I think it's a great system and wish something could be applied to HU cash poker to reduce bumhunting. 

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: Sorting out sitting out......:

In Response to Re: Sorting out sitting out...... : Ok so it's on a smaller scale, which makes sense as FT/** are a lot bigger than Sky, but isn't this just what Sky do when they let the presenters loose on the cash tables during the show? Thanks to Teddy for those posts, really interesting lunchtime reading, I never realised that the upper echelons of the game had become so shady. Would seem only a matter of time before things implode if there isn't a major change to what's going on up there? And the noted on recs 'zzzzz' comments - didn't we have a thread on here (started by an infrequent poster) a couple of months ago asking whether Sky could reduce the decision clock on hands to speed things up... which would address this issue, but which got roundly slated as an idea by the majority of posters to the thread!
Posted by shakinaces

Ah yes, I remember it fondly. This is the guy who thought that he was being accused of being unable to count, despite the joke firmly being laid at Slipwater's door. He went off on one, and hasn't been seen since!

I said at the time that I thought a couple of 'speed' tables might be a good shout, but it kinda got lost amongst his sense of humour bypass

Machka

In Response to Re: Sorting out sitting out......:

In Response to Re: Sorting out sitting out...... : Ok so it's on a smaller scale, which makes sense as FT/** are a lot bigger than Sky, but isn't this just what Sky do when they let the presenters loose on the cash tables during the show? Thanks to Teddy for those posts, really interesting lunchtime reading, I never realised that the upper echelons of the game had become so shady. Would seem only a matter of time before things implode if there isn't a major change to what's going on up there? And the noted on recs 'zzzzz' comments - didn't we have a thread on here (started by an infrequent poster) a couple of months ago asking whether Sky could reduce the decision clock on hands to speed things up... which would address this issue, but which got roundly slated as an idea by the majority of posters to the thread!
Posted by shakinaces

Leave Orford out of this. ;-)

Fascinating posts by TeddyBloat on this thread!

TeddyBloat

glad people found it all interesting.

Tikay, the whole black friday and isuldur1era is before I had any real interest in poker so I cant offer any informed opinion on gus and bloms losses other than to say they are incredible in the sense that they are barely believable. 

The whole isuldur rise and fall however is a wonderful story. Id advise anyone remotely interested to search out a thread on 2+2 that collated the relevant posts from the  november 09 high stakes rail thread (or whatever month he burst onto the scene). Don t think anyone will ever shake up the scene like he did back then; don't think there will ever be that scene to shake up either.

There a lot more stuff I could post about husng politics, when colman said it was a dark game in his one drop statement he got a lot of stick, but he speaks as someone who sits atop a greasy pole right at the apex of all this shadiness. And hes done some incredibly shady and downright immoral things in getting there.

Tikay10

Hi Teddy,

I'm finding this whole thing astonishing.

Incidentally, Hansen has lost $17 million on Full Tilt (fact, official) SINCE Tilt re-opened in 2012.

It beggars belief!

All the while, Tilt were using him as their "Face of Full Tilt".
 
You can barely make this stuff up.  

Tikay10

Teddy,

I said yesterday that I intended to "steal" your piece & Post it elsewhere, as I was so amazed by it all.

I did exactly that, & said you had written it, using your alias "Teddy Bloat".
 
It is a Forum largely populated by extremely experienced poker players, many of whom are very successful, with multiple WSOP Bracelet winners, EPT winners, & Online "monsters" such as Patrick Leonard, Rick Trigg, Chris Brammer etc amongst them. 

It generated a lot of replies, & almost without exception, the respondents were equally surprised by the whole thing.
 
Two media guys, Barry Carter & Alun Bowden, both senior poker media names, were also shocked by it all. Quite a story yoiu gave us there.

One guy WAS familiar with the scene, his nanme is Dan Morgan, & he is - or was - a long-time Heads Up Pro on 'Stars. In fact, he says he actually set up one of these "cartels". I believe him, as I know him well, & personally, over many years, & have purchased a piece of his WSOP HU action in past years.

I will C & P his reply here shortly, you & others may find it interesting.
 
  

Tikay10

This was the reply by Dan Morgan.


"Yeah if anyone wants to know anything about how the cartels/divisions work fire away, I set up the one for $100 turbos with a few others

A lot of the problems that the hypers cartels had with backers being in, some of their horses being out and the handbags/politics that comes along with it because hardly anyone in our group is staked.

These groups forming are just a natural evolution of the game with sharkystrator coming along. When you had to manual reg lobbies the big time bumhunters knew that they had no shot to get a lobby so there wasn't really a problem, but with the introduction of this software anyone that bought it could have it watch a lobby and sit when it opened up, which caused a stream of players to start joining the sharky queue knowing that they'd be able to grab the lobby for a little while and maybe get a game against a recreational player at a much higher stake than they'd be able to open sit.

The bumhunters getting games against recs takes money out of the pockets of the players that are good enough to play that stake (we can debate whether the idea of the best players being more 'deserving' of the games against recs all day, but most would agree with poker being a meritocracy) and the only way to fight it was to team up and sit these guys as soon as they get a lobby. The sharky queue was getting up to 12 or more people meaning you were waiting over an hour between games and that obviously isn't sustainable. At first there were obviously a lot of complaints from the players that were no longer able to maintain a good hourly by playing -10% ROI players all day.

It really shook things up, made regs look at each other and say 'do I really want to share lobbies with this guy?'

Some very well established regs that had great records from years ago but had fallen behind the curve got burned and tumbled down the stakes. Some people that were good and were moving up got stung in that they now had to play a lot more games against regs than they would otherwise have done to be able to open sit higher stakes.

The mechanics from the inside are we have a list of players that are not in the group but that are trying to sit the lobbies. All group members are obliged to sit these players whenever they get a lobby. Anyone shirking their responsibilities and trying to freeroll the rest of the group by not battling vs the sit list players gets kicked. The difference between the 1ks vs Coleman and most of the other groups is that you don't actually have to take a chunk of money from the group to get in, you just have to make it not worth our while to play you, so you have to beat the group over a decent sample for more than the rake. Players that are clearly stronger than some of the weaker group members get in much faster, but the reality of the poker economy is that these requirements will have to be tightened as the pool of recs slowly dries up.

The introduction of Spin n Gos on stars is the final nail in the coffin for HUSNGs imo especially regspeeds and turbos which have been in terminal decline since the introduction of heads up hypers. I actually quit heads up sngs to concentrate on learning PLO a couple of months ago."

MrWh1te

On topic, I think it is probable that people sit-out accidently more on sky than the other major sites.

My reason for thinking this is, other sites have tables pop up and sky don't.  If you have sky on front, it pops up, but I like many others play many sites.  so what happens is, I play all the other sites without noticing that sky has timed out.

TeddyBloat

Thanks for that

Yeah there are turbo divisions on stars and ftp, its not just a stars hyper phenomena.

With regard to spin ansd goes they have hurt hyper traffic and the 30's division has only just come about in response to the reduced rec traffic at that level making  the wait times unacceptable to the better regs. I cant see hypers dying off though, traffic has stabalised and games are firing off quickly at low stakes.

The formation of the 30's has been bumpy. Some members have been hiding at the 15s and not defending lobbies, some of  the players not in have been seen complaining about being sat and stating that only want to play recreationals,   asking to be left alone. Some players where put in without being asked and have been targetted by players on the outside wanting in. Some formed a counter division to battle the established one. Really zany politics atm.

Tikay10

In Response to Re: Sorting out sitting out......:

Thanks for that Yeah there are turbo divisions on stars and ftp, its not just a stars hyper phenomena. With regard to spin ansd goes they have hurt hyper traffic and the 30's division has only just come about in response to the reduced rec traffic at that level making  the wait times unacceptable to the better regs. I cant see hypers dying off though, traffic has stabalised and games are firing off quickly at low stakes. The formation of the 30's has been bumpy. Some members have been hiding at the 15s and not defending lobbies, some of  the players not in have been seen complaining about being sat and stating that only want to play recreationals,   asking to be left alone. Some players where put in without being asked and have been targetted by players on the outside wanting in. Some formed a counter division to battle the established one. Really zany politics atm.
Posted by TeddyBloat

The sheer arrogance & misplaced sense of entitlement of that is mind-blowing.

Some of these guys need a little life balance in the real world, to se how life really is.

TeddyBloat

Quite a story yoiu gave us there.

That tickled me , haha.

To surprise names like that takes some doing I imagine.

'

TeddyBloat

In Response to Re: Sorting out sitting out......:

In Response to Re: Sorting out sitting out...... : The sheer arrogance & misplaced sense of entitlement of that is mind-blowing. Some of these guys need a little life balance in the real world, to se how life really is.
Posted by Tikay10

Ive been targetted by peeps tagging me (I play a very non-reg style that has the unfortunate side effect of appearing very "fishy", esp in peoples HUD numbers, which means some regs think I am a rec afterjust  one or two games). The only response is to shut up, be friendly and play well. Noone likes losing money and if you are good enough they will leave you alone.

Divisions change that and they cannot leave you alone. You have to move down to avoid them. They cant avoid you though, so if you can find some you have an edge on they have to give you action ( 2 tables upon request for a minimum of half an hour) whenever you ask it of them. So it can work both ways.