Moving up levels....

devonfish5

It's said that all poker players 'find their level' so is that maybe why it is so hard to reach that next higher level, the one just

 above where we feel so at home & where we maybe really would like to be, myself included.

Or could it possibly be that we reach our level with comparative ease & simply aren't prepared to invest the time & effort required to get there?

Or do other factors come in to play, such as mental barriers or does the higher money involved & possibly playing with under-rolled bankrolls for the higher level.

Or is that the next level really is that little bit harder & we might need more time & practise or do we possibly need to make changes to our game to succeed?

I'm sure many players must have tried or be in the process of trying to move up, regardless of the poker format they might play, so I thought this might be a topic worth discussing.

As for myself, the move up from £3 to £5 DYM's goes on & on  

But showing a £50 profit so far it looks as though progress is finally being made at long last. of course it is still very early days to say I have cracked it, but all the signs are looking quite positive right now.

So what has changed from my previous efforts at beating this level?

Playing less tables is a key factor for me I feel, I now am playing anywhere between 1 & 3 tables mixed in with some £3 games.(6 tables max combined but even just  the 2 or 4 tables at times)

This means I am now able to spend more time 'thinking' about my moves & what my opponents moves might be, rather than previously playing many more tables 9+ typically, where I would be playing pretty much ABC poker & more often than not simply going through the motions pressing buttons.

making notes on players is also key for me & helping, along with some table selection, that is a certainty.

I have also made some slight adjustments to my own play, the most significant one being I have had to loosen my game, by that I mean now playing a wider range at certain times during each game, than I  previously did.

Finding/seeing spots to gain chips has always been key & knowing what size bet to make, ie; min raise 2x 3x or all-in, & when & against which players is another thing I am still learning as I go.

yes I have spent time watching players & this has proved very useful. you can see how they play & what hand ranges they use & look for any betting patterns, which all players have.

also by watching I have found players that I previously thought were almost unbeatable to beat are not, they are human just as I or you are, & in fact if anything their play is not as good as I perceived it to be.

That's not to say they aren't good players, just not as good as they once seemed to me.

yes, I have found it a mental battle up until now for sure, & spent many hours thinking about why I couldn't make the break-through.

But I guess it's like all games/sports you only win when you are ready to win, & it takes time & practice before you get there.

I'm sure there are short cuts which could help you, ie; coaching being the most obvious one where a better player could analyse you & all your mistakes.

The 'poker clinic' here is another useful aid, & I would be the first to admit that I haven't/do not use it as much as I should.

Being honest with yourself is also important, you can't keep thinking you are simply being unlucky when losing.

yes all players will have run-bad sessions & a loss/losses are unavoidable at times, but when it becomes or is day after day then that is the time to try to do something about it.

anyway, just a few of my thoughts on the subject, I hope some of you give your thoughts also which might just be of some help for others.

salazar

Moving up levels is more about the money than the skill in my opinion, by that i mean the level of play at a £3 SNG won't be much different to a £5 SNG. The difference comes when you have a bad run and all of a sudden you're down £15 -20 rather than £6-9

If you have enough in your account and you get your mind used to the difference in terms of what you're winning and losing then it shouldn't be a problem.

It's all about being comfortable, if you aren't comfortable and are playing scared then you won't be playing your best and will most likely lose.

As you go further up the ladder the level of play will become more of a factor but the difference in terms of a £3 SNG to a £5 SNG will be very small

hhyftrftdr

You need to be able to handle ''miracle rivers'' the higher you get as well.

Matt237

In Response to Re: Moving up levels....:

Moving up levels is more about the money than the skill in my opinion, by that i mean the level of play at a £3 SNG won't be much different to a £5 SNG. The difference comes when you have a bad run and all of a sudden you're down £15 -20 rather than £6-9 If you have enough in your account and you get your mind used to the difference in terms of what you're winning and losing then it shouldn't be a problem. It's all about being comfortable, if you aren't comfortable and are playing scared then you won't be playing your best and will most likely lose. As you go further up the ladder the level of play will become more of a factor but the difference in terms of a £3 SNG to a £5 SNG will be very small
Posted by salazar

Bigger than you think 

LARSON7

In Response to Moving up levels....:

It's said that all poker players 'find their level' so is that maybe why it is so hard to reach that next higher level, the one just  above where we feel so at home & where we maybe really would like to be, myself included. Or could it possibly be that we reach our level with comparative ease & simply aren't prepared to invest the time & effort required to get there? Or do other factors come in to play, such as mental barriers or does the higher money involved & possibly playing with under-rolled bankrolls for the higher level. Or is that the next level really is that little bit harder & we might need more time & practise or do we possibly need to make changes to our game to succeed? I'm sure many players must have tried or be in the process of trying to move up, regardless of the poker format they might play, so I thought this might be a topic worth discussing. As for myself, the move up from £3 to £5 DYM's goes on & on   But showing a £50 profit so far it looks as though progress is finally being made at long last. of course it is still very early days to say I have cracked it, but all the signs are looking quite positive right now. So what has changed from my previous efforts at beating this level? Playing less tables is a key factor for me I feel, I now am playing anywhere between 1 & 3 tables mixed in with some £3 games.(6 tables max combined but even just  the 2 or 4 tables at times) This means I am now able to spend more time 'thinking' about my moves & what my opponents moves might be, rather than previously playing many more tables 9+ typically, where I would be playing pretty much ABC poker & more often than not simply going through the motions pressing buttons. making notes on players is also key for me & helping, along with some table selection, that is a certainty. I have also made some slight adjustments to my own play, the most significant one being I have had to loosen my game, by that I mean now playing a wider range at certain times during each game, than I  previously did. Finding/seeing spots to gain chips has always been key & knowing what size bet to make, ie; min raise 2x 3x or all-in, & when & against which players is another thing I am still learning as I go. yes I have spent time watching players & this has proved very useful. you can see how they play & what hand ranges they use & look for any betting patterns, which all players have. also by watching I have found players that I previously thought were almost unbeatable to beat are not, they are human just as I or you are, & in fact if anything their play is not as good as I perceived it to be. That's not to say they aren't good players, just not as good as they once seemed to me. yes, I have found it a mental battle up until now for sure, & spent many hours thinking about why I couldn't make the break-through. But I guess it's like all games/sports you only win when you are ready to win, & it takes time & practice before you get there. I'm sure there are short cuts which could help you, ie; coaching being the most obvious one where a better player could analyse you & all your mistakes. The 'poker clinic' here is another useful aid, & I would be the first to admit that I haven't/do not use it as much as I should. Being honest with yourself is also important, you can't keep thinking you are simply being unlucky when losing. yes all players will have run-bad sessions & a loss/losses are unavoidable at times, but when it becomes or is day after day then that is the time to try to do something about it. anyway, just a few of my thoughts on the subject, I hope some of you give your thoughts also which might just be of some help for others.
Posted by devonfish5

Just try and be as aggro as possible and exploit players weakness on the bubble (DYM)

devonfish5

In Response to Re: Moving up levels....:

In Response to Moving up levels.... : Just try and be as aggro as possible and exploit players weakness on the bubble (DYM)
Posted by LARSON7

Thanks Larson.

I've always been pretty aggro on the bubble as limping obviously and min raising even can be exploited.

I think it's the mid-game where I've loosened up a tad & touch wood so far so good.  -:)

Mayhem357

Interesting read here Dev, I like your game and I would have thought it would be fine moving from £3 to £5's but would be exploited higher.  I struggled at first when I moved up from £5 to £10's but now comfortably grind at both.  There is a big difference between levels though and on the £3s you can mechnically play because the standard is generally really poor particularly with hand selection. You will find that on the £5s but also there are more regs too but the core principle style of TAG is correct. 

When/if you move up to the £10s and above you will find C-bets less effective and people attacking your blind more often but with larger bets. I feel the difference here is more the bubble game and ranging opponents, that made the biggest difference for me because I rarely had to range villians on lower stakes.

devonfish5

In Response to Re: Moving up levels....:

Interesting read here Dev, I like your game and I would have thought it would be fine moving from £3 to £5's but would be exploited higher.  I struggled at first when I moved up from £5 to £10's but now comfortably grind at both.  There is a big difference between levels though and on the £3s you can mechnically play because the standard is generally really poor particularly with hand selection. You will find that on the £5s but also there are more regs too but the core principle style of TAG is correct.  When/if you move up to the £10s and above you will find C-bets less effective and people attacking your blind more often but with larger bets. I feel the difference here is more the bubble game and ranging opponents, that made the biggest difference for me because I rarely had to range villians on lower stakes.
Posted by Mayhem357

Cheers Mayhem,

I've been watching the £5 level & £11's less so, (you included, ha ha), & learning quite a lot from you guys  

I think I'm getting there & making subtle changes to my game has helped, but I'm sure a few more tweaks here & there are still needed & I am pretty honest as to where I am right now & am not playing perfect poker by any means, which must be a good thing as I know any improvement has to be a step in the right direction.

Yes the £3's are pretty much abc poker & I have found  more thought is needed at the £5 level & the reason I try to keep number of tables to the minimum.

I've no plans to play anymore games at the £11 level... 2 was enough for me for now.  lol

Always enjoy our battles mate & I'm sure there will be many more to come.

best wishes,

dev

alex1229

Ive played across all the levels from 60p to £55 DYM's and honestly its really just about your bankroll, rather than skill, you get fish at all levels, a £55 dym doesnt mean everyone is neccesarily good..you just cant play 'scared' if your playing 'scared' i.e above your limits, then that will effect your play.

But if you are a winning DYM player, then i think you can play any level so long as you feel comfortable - and its within your bankroll (e.g your balance can handle a few knocks)

Having said that i did find the £5 games incredibly fishy, i endured my best win streaks there (14 or so on the spin) and found the £10 games very nitty - but £20+ onwards become a lot more open and fishy again.

So yeah.

devonfish5

In Response to Re: Moving up levels....:

Ive played across all the levels from 60p to £55 DYM's and honestly its really just about your bankroll, rather than skill, you get fish at all levels, a £55 dym doesnt mean everyone is neccesarily good..you just cant play 'scared' if your playing 'scared' i.e above your limits, then that will effect your play. But if you are a winning DYM player, then i think you can play any level so long as you feel comfortable - and its within your bankroll (e.g your balance can handle a few knocks) Having said that i did find the £5 games incredibly fishy, i endured my best win streaks there (14 or so on the spin) and found the £10 games very nitty - but £20+ onwards become a lot more open and fishy again. So yeah.
Posted by alex1229

Cheers Alex,

Thats nice to know, ha ha  so there's hope for me yet.  lol

I guess there are basically only so many moves you can make like you say regardless of levels, & as you say having a good bankroll is essential. as I've always been a b/r nit then my minimum 100 buy-ins will be a key factor when I hopefully move up to give the £11's a good go.  -:)

devonfish5

quick update,

lost most of my £5 roll playing in a xmas promotion, went from £70+ down to £11.50 (but won £45+ in the process),

since then haven't lost a single £5 game winning 13 in a row & counting,so £5 profit is up to £70 again  -:)

funny old game isn't it...

from taking around the last 2 years trying to win...now I can't lose one, ha ha.

ok it's not going to last but enjoying the moment.

finding good table selection is helping, obviously running good too.

more updates as & when.

now up to 17 unbeaten -;)  31/12/14