Neil Channing knows his stuff........

MITANDY117

Thanks again to SKY AMBassador Neil Channing

Listened to his advice and managed to apply it in a £100 b/h £5.75 buy in

Won the tourney and £49 in bounties

Now sitting at £170 from £20

Yehaw

Phantom66

In Response to Neil Channing knows his stuff........:

Thanks again to SKY AMBassador Neil Channing Listened to his advice and managed to apply it in a £100 b/h £5.75 buy in Won the tourney and £49 in bounties Now sitting at £170 from £20 Yehaw
Posted by MITANDY117

VWP - are there any particular adjustments you made that benifited you in particular?

NChanning

In Response to Re: Neil Channing knows his stuff........:

In Response to Neil Channing knows his stuff........ : VWP - are there any particular adjustments you made that benifited you in particular?
Posted by Phantom66

 Good question...What did I say that was so smart? (they say if you leave a bunch of monkees with some typewriters...).

NChanning

 Nice one by the way Andy, I like this thread.

HITMAN_RV

On Tenterhooks Here!!!

Andy, stop Yehawwing, & explain in detail pls!!

Thanks Mate, lol

MITANDY117

In Response to Re: Neil Channing knows his stuff........:

On Tenterhooks Here!!! Andy, stop Yehawwing, & explain in detail pls!! Thanks Mate, lol
Posted by HITMAN_RV

A bit of the mental stuff I found interesting, useful as I was a super tilted when big hands cracked.

I used to get involved with 7 9 flush draws that type of hand out of position, which you said " never ends well"

So that helped.

Don't get wed to QQ JJ, AK is only Ace high etc

But the main thing was put opponent on a range of hands, that was the main one really.

So I think I turned into a nit

Honestly I just listened to all your points and tried to use them, GREAT STUFF

I would play grind up from £20 upto a few hundred then supertilt and lose it all

Once played and got up from £10 upto a massive game(for me) playing £500

holding KK FLOPPED KKA Lost the lot on river to AAAA after that my mental side caved for months

Hope got it sorted cheers

Andy

MITANDY117

better bet sizing as well

MITANDY117

Play the long game I suppose as well para phrasing but think that's what you meant?

tomgoodun

Very well done my good man,andy? I must say that sky poker in general is by far the best site I have played on,with the poker channel,clinic,community,and folk such as Mr Channing and Sir Tikay of Concretia willing to give advice free of charge to point us in the right direction.,it just shows how much they care for the game and the people playing it,I think of these things when folk are saying all kinds of stuff in the chat box,it helps me anyway,tc and hope you continue to run well.

F_Ivanovic

In Response to Re: Neil Channing knows his stuff........:

In Response to Re: Neil Channing knows his stuff........ :  Once played and got up from £10 upto a massive game(for me) playing £500 holding KK FLOPPED KKA Lost the lot on river to AAAA after that my mental side caved for months Hope got it sorted cheers Andy
Posted by MITANDY117

OK that might be where you're going wrong.... spinning £10 into £500 is great but if you are playing with all your money on the line (ie. sat down with £500 when you only have £500) you could be the best poker player in the world and still lose it because after all poker is also a game of luck and probability. If you GII with Aces you're AN 80%+ fave but that still means you will lose 20% of the time. 

Suppose you sit down with the £10 and you GII with aces as a 80% fave. You keep GII with aces and double your stake each time if you win. The chance of winning once is 80%. Twice is 64%. Three times is 51.2%. Four times is 41%. So the chance you'll turn the £10 into £160 is 41%. That's pretty good although isn't a realistic scenario. (more likely the most edge you'll have is 55-60% at best if you are really good) If we continue with it you could get to £2560 but you'd only have a 17% chance of achieving that. 

If we go with a 60% chance to double up each time then the likelyhood of reaching £2560 would be 1%. In short, if you keep trying trying to double up and don't have a stopping point eventually you will go bust. 

If that's how you like to play then that's great but at least have some sort of stopping point. eg. If I make £500 I'm going to withdraw that and start again with just £10.

If, however you want to take poker more seriously and play without the risk of going bust then you need to adopt some bankroll management. (BRM) BRM is applied in all aspects of business and should be applied to poker too. If you are a winning player and have solid BRM you are never going to bust your roll (unless you break that BRM and go on tilt!!) - but you'll also be less likely to go on tilt anyway. 

BRM can be simplified to say it's the % of money you risk at one time or it's the amount of Buyins you have for a particular cash game level. To determine what BRM you should have depends on quite a few things. Firstly: How important is the money to you? If you have a full time job and just play poker for fun then you can consider as low as a 20BI rule. That means if you have £200 you'd want to be sitting at 10NL (£10x20 = 200) If your BR drops to just 15BI's then you should probably move down a level till you can move back up (this might not be necessary at 10NL so much if the £200 isn't important to you but suppose you reached £2k and a more significant amount of money where you would be playing 100NL it would be a lot more important to move down a level if you dropped to just £1.5k.

This might be good for you because it still allows you to quickly spin up your money but it has more chance of succeeding. Even so you might still want a point where you decide to withdraw X amount and move down a level. It's very easy to drop 5 BI's in a session so you would have to be prepared for a lot of swings with your bankroll But it can be a lot of fun - I've played like this in the past so know from experience

If you want to take poker slightly more seriously than this and have even a less chance of going bust then a 50-60BI rule should be used (However, at the lower stakes levels. eg. 10NL, you can again consider just 20-30BI's. And 20NL maybe just 40BIs. So say you have £200 then you can start at 10NL but I'd only move up to 20NL if I reached £800. If you see what's a good table at 20NL and have say doubled your initial £200 then it might be worth it to take a shot and dabble at 20NL but know when to quit and move back down if you lose a couple BI's!

And if you want to pursue poker full time or just have a very little % chance of busts and big swings then you want at least 100BI's for your level. (and up to 200/250 at most) - Right now for example I'm playing poker full time and play anywhere between 20NL and 50NL and have almost 200BI's for 50NL, 270BI's for 30NL and way more than enough for 20NL!!

MITANDY117

In Response to Re: Neil Channing knows his stuff........:

In Response to Re: Neil Channing knows his stuff........ : OK that might be where you're going wrong.... spinning £10 into £500 is great but if you are playing with all your money on the line (ie. sat down with £500 when you only have £500) you could be the best poker player in the world and still lose it because after all poker is also a game of luck and probability. If you GII with Aces you're AN 80%+ fave but that still means you will lose 20% of the time.  Suppose you sit down with the £10 and you GII with aces as a 80% fave. You keep GII with aces and double your stake each time if you win. The chance of winning once is 80%. Twice is 64%. Three times is 51.2%. Four times is 41%. So the chance you'll turn the £10 into £160 is 41%. That's pretty good although isn't a realistic scenario. (more likely the most edge you'll have is 55-60% at best if you are really good) If we continue with it you could get to £2560 but you'd only have a 17% chance of achieving that.  If we go with a 60% chance to double up each time then the likelyhood of reaching £2560 would be 1%. In short, if you keep trying trying to double up and don't have a stopping point eventually you will go bust.  If that's how you like to play then that's great but at least have some sort of stopping point. eg. If I make £500 I'm going to withdraw that and start again with just £10. If, however you want to take poker more seriously and play without the risk of going bust then you need to adopt some bankroll management. (BRM) BRM is applied in all aspects of business and should be applied to poker too. If you are a winning player and have solid BRM you are never going to bust your roll (unless you break that BRM and go on tilt!!) - but you'll also be less likely to go on tilt anyway.  BRM can be simplified to say it's the % of money you risk at one time or it's the amount of Buyins you have for a particular cash game level. To determine what BRM you should have depends on quite a few things. Firstly: How important is the money to you? If you have a full time job and just play poker for fun then you can consider as low as a 20BI rule. That means if you have £200 you'd want to be sitting at 10NL (£10x20 = 200) If your BR drops to just 15BI's then you should probably move down a level till you can move back up (this might not be necessary at 10NL so much if the £200 isn't important to you but suppose you reached £2k and a more significant amount of money where you would be playing 100NL it would be a lot more important to move down a level if you dropped to just £1.5k. This might be good for you because it still allows you to quickly spin up your money but it has more chance of succeeding. Even so you might still want a point where you decide to withdraw X amount and move down a level. It's very easy to drop 5 BI's in a session so you would have to be prepared for a lot of swings with your bankroll But it can be a lot of fun - I've played like this in the past so know from experience If you want to take poker slightly more seriously than this and have even a less chance of going bust then a 50-60BI rule should be used (However, at the lower stakes levels. eg. 10NL, you can again consider just 20-30BI's. And 20NL maybe just 40BIs. So say you have £200 then you can start at 10NL but I'd only move up to 20NL if I reached £800. If you see what's a good table at 20NL and have say doubled your initial £200 then it might be worth it to take a shot and dabble at 20NL but know when to quit and move back down if you lose a couple BI's! And if you want to pursue poker full time or just have a very little % chance of busts and big swings then you want at least 100BI's for your level. (and up to 200/250 at most) - Right now for example I'm playing poker full time and play anywhere between 20NL and 50NL and have almost 200BI's for 50NL, 270BI's for 30NL and way more than enough for 20NL!!
Posted by F_Ivanovic

MITANDY117

Well, that was past , when I first started . 

I try and play at 5% of bank roll now and finally got demons and my head around it.

Creeping up slowly.

It's great though to free roll in a higher stakes game

Essentially I'd lost a tenner in a day when I lost the £1000 pot because I was FREEROLLING

LOL

MITANDY117

In Response to Re: Neil Channing knows his stuff........:

Well, that was past , when I first started .  I try and play at 5% of bank roll now and finally got demons and my head around it. Creeping up slowly. It's great though to free roll in a higher stakes game Essentially I'd lost a tenner in a day when I lost the £1000 pot because I was FREEROLLING LOL
Posted by MITANDY117

Yup your Excellency going well £178  , drifted into a big game , kinda freerolling

£100 HU but came away after an hour with profit , onward and upward

YEHAW £180

Phantom66

In Response to Re: Neil Channing knows his stuff........:

In Response to Re: Neil Channing knows his stuff........ : Yup your Excellency going well £178  , drifted into a big game , kinda freerolling £100 HU but came away after an hour with profit , onward and upward YEHAW £180
Posted by MITANDY117

Having convinced yourself it's in the past and ignoring @Ivanovic and joining a £100 HU game with £178.

... It sounds like Neil better talk about bankroll management on his next show - you might listen to him.

GL

MITANDY117

In Response to Re: Neil Channing knows his stuff........:

In Response to Re: Neil Channing knows his stuff........ : Having convinced yourself it's in the past and ignoring @Ivanovic and joining a £100 HU game with £178. ... It sounds like Neil better talk about bankroll management on his next show - you might listen to him. GL
Posted by Phantom66

Just took a shot for a while, I get a better rush up high.

Understand pitfalls but back down in micro again, grinding

LOL

MITANDY117

I fundamentally disagree with Ivanovic.

Each time you play AA the odds are 80/20.

In my own experience you can run 24 times on spin winning, conversely I've had 16 times on trot losing. 

The previous hand doesn't affect the next so you are always 80/20.

It's redundant anyway because every situation is different with all the factors we know about 

ie: playing style of opponents, blinds, game type, tilt, stacks and many others, alcohol, time pressure.

That's why it's a fascinating game.

But odds don't change because you win.

Also when I dabble in higher games I lose a lot of my game.

I don't risk all on draws or bluffs but it's  fun uphigh 

GELDY

In Response to Re: Neil Channing knows his stuff........:

I fundamentally disagree with Ivanovic. Each time you play AA the odds are 80/20. In my own experience you can run 24 times on spin winning, conversely I've had 16 times on trot losing.  The previous hand doesn't affect the next so you are always 80/20. It's redundant anyway because every situation is different with all the factors we know about  ie: playing style of opponents, blinds, game type, tilt, stacks and many others, alcohol, time pressure. That's why it's a fascinating game. But odds don't change because you win. Also when I dabble in higher games I lose a lot of my game. I don't risk all on draws or bluffs but it's  fun uphigh 
Posted by MITANDY117

no you don't

you are actually agreeing with him

each is 80:20 (ish) you both agree

he is just compounding it up to highlight how those wretched 20%s will eventually knock you back to nothing if you play the double up game.

MITANDY117

In Response to Re: Neil Channing knows his stuff........:

In Response to Re: Neil Channing knows his stuff........ : no you don't you are actually agreeing with him each is 80:20 (ish) you both agree he is just compounding it up to highlight how those wretched 20%s will eventually knock you back to nothing if you play the double up game.
Posted by GELDY

I think Ivanovic somehow thought I was just trying to double up with AA or was using that as an example. 

Heyho it's a little bit like playing football with same guys every week and wondering " why am I not getting better "

I understand and realise the pitfalls and really love  NLH. 

It's more the mental battle I enjoy so while it can be dangerous to swim with the Sharks sometimes you have too. 

£190 holding on, it'd be great one day to play with a decent roll with all the tools available. 

I'm sure that I said earlier that my bluffing and drawing hands slow right down when playing "scared money ".

I understand Ivanovic but removing low flushing hands and other speculative starting hands reduce my odds, however I am aware he's on the money about Brm