Master Cash 16th Jan - Make Your Play ONE

Tikay10

Erm, Eccles Cake?

Sorry, but this just looks like someone has slumped across your keyboard to me. Because of that, I'm probably folding, and then finding a desolate place where I can weep

Tikay10

Some excellent replies last week, & fascinating to see that on one of the questions, the Vote was split almost equally betwen "Fold" & "Raise"! Evidence, if evidence were ever needed, that we all see the game differently, & that's how it should be.

For the first of this week's two Questions, (which Sky-Ling gives to me), there is some hardcore poker lingo. It'd be good to see a discusssion on what these mean, & how you interpret them. And if you don't know what they mean, please ask, as I'm sure there'll be a plethora of replies.

Right, here we go.

6 handed, £1 - £2.

Villain VPIP/PFR 22/19 for 36 hands.

Hero Image is LAG, & is UTG, with £282 behind.

Villain has £216.50 behind.

UTG Hero Raises to £6 with As-2s, CO Calls the £6, so does Villain, who is round the back

Flop 4s-Th-Qs

Hero bets £14 with his NFD, CO folds, Villain smooths.

Turn - Jc

So it's now 4s-Th-Qs-Jc

Hero bets £30, Villain smooths again.

River Tc

So it's 4s-Th-Qs-Jc-Tc. Scary!

Hero.....

Check-Calls?

Check Folds?

Bets £70?

Please use the Vote Option, & comment on WHY you do whatever you do.

Also might be interesting to comment on Hero's play here.....

The Show e-addy address is skyopen@bskyb/com, feel free to send in your comments, please.

acebarry10

Hi tikay

Er... VPIP/PFR 22/19 for 36 hands?, could you clarify for me please?

zxghostxz

HERO   is a bit fishy isent he. did he do anything right.lol.  tell him to try  tiddily winks instead....just tell im to fold it. end the misery..lolololol

Dudeskin8

Ace high by river, just check fold and try and forget about it lol.

Tikay10

In Response to Re: Master Cash 16th Jan - Make Your Play ONE:

Erm, Eccles Cake? Sorry, but this just looks like someone has slumped across your keyboard to me. Because of that, I'm probably folding, and then finding a desolate place where I can weep
Posted by FlutNush

You've seen me type, then?

DOHHHHHHH

I dunno if I can fire a third shell here, unlikely hes on the same flush draw as us, as we obv have 2 spades, the straight draw on the flop, jack king, has improved, and will probably call the river bet, 2nd pair on the fop has become trips, and top pair is still top pair and unlikely the villain wud fold it after calling twice.

Not sure about the lingo...have no idea what it means.

But having a LAG image isn't gonna do us any favours when trying to get the river bet through......

Cant really see a way to win this pot - I give up, check fold.

salazar

In Response to Re: Master Cash 16th Jan - Make Your Play ONE:

Hi tikay Er... VPIP/PFR 22/19 for 36 hands?, could you clarify for me please?
Posted by acebarry10

VPIP - voluntary put money in pot - 22 is tight
PFR - pre flop raise - 19 (it means when he plays he raises most - 19 out of 22 times)

TAG player - tight aggressive


These are stats that are available on software such as HEM which you cannot use on Sky Poker

Salazar

POTTSY82

What have I started?  Bombay make your play now TK issit?

salazar

Using the stats above we know this player mainly raises pre and very rarely calls. The fact that this player has only called pre flop and didn't 3 bet would indicate to me he/she has a small pocket pair or suited connectors.
I think he folds the pair on the flop unless he makes a set. I think he raises if he hits a set because of the flush draw. Therefore i would say he has suited connectors. Is he on the same draw as us? maybe. The question is as he picked up a pair or straight draw along the way. I would probably fire a shell on the river for about half pot and hope he's been chasing the same draw as us. we can't check because he might have missed the flush draw like we have and decide to bluff the river and then we can't call.

Salazar

scotty77

I bet but I don't bet £70.  I think I bet around £55.  Think it gets the same job done and if we are looked up we save £15.  We never ever check/call, the only way we do this is if the LAG is the villain and we are the nit to induce.  Check/fold is ok but I hate giving up.

While we are LAG we also raised UTG and have shown strength all 3 streets.  Plus I wouldn't say that our image is too laggy givien the stats.  22 is reasonably tight and we have always shown strentgh when entering the pot, and we are UTG which polarised our range.  I think that betting looks very very strong by river and we really need to fold out Js that got there, like J9/KJ/AJ.

There are some villains were I would just give up tho, but vs an unknown I think that betting is the best option.

mr_mbro

Hi
This one is not so simple, for me it would depend on how im feeling/playing. On a good day im going to bet but probably to pot size, to take it down and put pressure on the villain.
On a poor day, id check fold.
Check calling is just stupid imo
I have voted for check fold as i have more bad days than good lol.
col

acebarry10

In Response to Re: Master Cash 16th Jan - Make Your Play ONE:

In Response to Re: Master Cash 16th Jan - Make Your Play ONE : VPIP - voluntary put money in pot - 22 is tight PFR - pre flop raise - 19 (it means when he plays he raises most - 19 out of 22 times) TAG player - tight aggressive These are stats that are available on software such as HEM which you cannot use on Sky Poker Salazar
Posted by salazar

Thanks salazar, but I cant get my head round it

salazar

In Response to Re: Master Cash 16th Jan - Make Your Play ONE:

In Response to Re: Master Cash 16th Jan - Make Your Play ONE : Thanks salazar, but I cant get my head round it
Posted by acebarry10

Hi Barry

Basically it means that this guys plays 22% of his hands. 1 in 5 nearly. This is tight on a 6 handed table.
The pre flop raise (PFR) figure is basically what he does when he decides to play a hand. The closer to the 22% the more aggressive the player is. i.e if someone has 22/22 it would mean that every hand they play they would raise and never call.
if someone had 22/0 they would still be tight but they would limp into pots and just call raises rather than raise themselves.

The higher the vpip is the more hands the player is playing and therefore the looser they are. I would say anything over 35 is loose and anything under 25 is tight. In between is well, in between. 


Hope this helps Barry

Salazar

acebarry10

In Response to Re: Master Cash 16th Jan - Make Your Play ONE:

In Response to Re: Master Cash 16th Jan - Make Your Play ONE : Hi Barry Basically it means that this guys plays 22% of his hands. 1 in 5 nearly. This is tight on a 6 handed table. The pre flop raise (PFR) figure is basically what he does when he decides to play a hand. The closer to the 22% the more aggressive the player is. i.e if someone has 22/22 it would mean that every hand they play they would raise and never call. if someone had 22/0 they would still be tight but they would limp into pots and just call raises rather than raise themselves. The higher the vpip is the more hands the player is playing and therefore the looser they are. I would say anything over 35 is loose and anything under 25 is tight. In between is well, in between.  Hope this helps Barry Salazar
Posted by salazar

Hi m8

Thank you, but think ill leave well enough alone

pr1nnyraid

would be good to know there 3 bet % to help define the range he wud call behind IP and not 3bet. Firstly villain appears TAG, but over 36 hands I wouldnt be getting carried away with the stats as this is simply to small sample size to be accurate. But wat it does hint to you is that villain has a good understanding of 6 max holdem... i would give him credit for the ability to float flop but expect wen he smooth calls turn aswell his range is narrowed to FD's, 2pair hands like Q10 QJ,  etc sets may flat call here but unlikely if villain really is TAG...

I just hate the spot we have got ourselves in, given the 3 options im probly gonna check fold and stop opening such a wide range UTG... If you really wanted to fire though it is easy to rep AK, full houses as we have taken a really strong line, mite this be a spot to overbet bluff forcing a good player to fold out everything but 10 J/ Q J/QQ/JJ.

jakally

Think one of the Kidz has hacked your account Mr K.

If I were you, I wouldn't say anything, and hope they play some hands for you - you may even have a winning session. ;o)

As played I bet the river - some hands that will call a bet, (that you are beating) will check behind.

£70 is not a bad number.

pr1nnyraid

In Response to Re: Master Cash 16th Jan - Make Your Play ONE:

Think one of the Kidz has hacked your account Mr K. If I were you, I wouldn't say anything, and hope they play some hands for you - you may even have a winning session. ;o) As played I bet the river - some hands that will call a bet, (that you are beating) will check behind. £70 is not a bad number.
Posted by jakally

what hands are we beating that would call a bet?

jakally

In Response to Re: Master Cash 16th Jan - Make Your Play ONE:

In Response to Re: Master Cash 16th Jan - Make Your Play ONE : what hands are we beating that would call a bet?
Posted by hotpotato

AT, AK, AQ, KT. (although some of these would need to be played really badly to get to the river.

If the Hero in this hand genuinely has a LAG-y image, the Villain will be more inclined to make marginal calls on any street.

The problem a lot of players have is that they don't get enough value out of hands, on the river, as they are scared that they might be behind.

The river is the most important street for value - the pot is always at it's biggest by this point, and therefore bets are the biggest of any street.

What is the point of going to all the trouble to build a pot, only to check it when you hit (unless of course you know the villain has either hit also, or is the kind to represent).

Sometimes you will value bet with this kind of hand, and get raised - at this point you will start to puke a little through the fingers you have clasped over your mouth.

When you bet in this spot, you should have a fair idea whether you are Bet-Folding, or Bet-Calling.

pr1nnyraid

In Response to Re: Master Cash 16th Jan - Make Your Play ONE:

In Response to Re: Master Cash 16th Jan - Make Your Play ONE : AT, AK, AQ, KT. (although some of these would need to be played really badly to get to the river. If the Hero in this hand genuinely has a LAG-y image, the Villain will be more inclined to make marginal calls on any street. The problem a lot of players have is that they don't get enough value out of hands, on the river, as they are scared that they might  be behind. The river is the  most important street for value - the pot is always at it's biggest by this point, and therefore bets are the biggest of any street. What is the point of going to all the trouble to build a pot, only to check it when you hit (unless of course you know the villain has either hit also, or is the kind to represent). Sometimes you will value bet with this kind of hand, and get raised - at this point you will start to puke a little through the fingers you have clasped over your mouth. When you bet in this spot, you should have a fair idea whether you are Bet-Folding, or Bet-Calling.
Posted by jakally

i dunno if u missread the HH, we missed the flush..


anyhow fwiw all u put above is valid if the riv was a spade

jakally

In Response to Re: Master Cash 16th Jan - Make Your Play ONE:

In Response to Re: Master Cash 16th Jan - Make Your Play ONE : i dunno if u missread the HH, we missed the flush.. anyhow fwiw all u put above is valid if the riv was a spade
Posted by hotpotato

Reading skills FTW!!

Was a nice analysis in my own little world. 

unknown_username

Bump

TommyD

Ok, the bet is the only way we can win.  I can see the thinking behind it, the player we are up against is tight and has been just flatting every barrel we fire.

Sometimes you have to empty the clip, however I think this is a check fold situation.  The guy has shown no intention of folding, he likes his hand.  We are Laggy and we might well be firing into a monster.  The board is too wet for his range.  White flag time for me, sadly.