Its the call not the out draw that annoyed me

mattdexter

WIZARDMICK	Small blind		50.00	50.00	1795.00
sjb10000	Big blind		100.00	150.00	8770.00
	Your hole cards	A Q
mattdexter	All-in		2840.00	2990.00	0.00
jokev10	All-in		2055.00	5045.00	0.00
hammer53	Fold
Blackers09	Fold
WIZARDMICK	All-in		1795.00	6840.00	0.00
sjb10000	Fold
mattdexter	Unmatched bet		785.00	6055.00	785.00
WIZARDMICK	Show	10 A
mattdexter	Show	A Q
jokev10	Show	10 9
Flop
		6 2 8
Turn
		7
River
		2
jokev10	Win	Straight to the 10	6055.00		6055.00

he called for his tourney, that is what infuriated me, lol. Its so annoying when you try and build a good stack and idiots do this, I'm sorry, but i feel you should all see this. Plus it was a BH and wouldve taken his bounty.

silentbob

Hi Matt

Now I'm no expert on this but straight away there are 2 things that jump out on me here:

1 - Why are you open shoving 28bb deep from UTG with ace high? If you open raise for 3x (maybe even 4 as you're out of position) you will get the info you want. If you're short stacked then I see no problem with shoving here but this deep just screams that you don't want to be called (at least it does for me anyway).

2 - I actually think the last all in has maybe done so because he's getting some decent value here with what will most likely be 2 live cards. Assuming the blinds were going to increase shortly he's effectively down to ~12bb so looking to double through quickly. As it is he's been given the chance to triple through.

In fact, I've just put these cards into a poker odds calculator and pre flop these are the percentages:

Ah Qh - 53%
Ac 10h - 12%
10s 9s - 29%

As you can see, on his assumption that he had 2 live cards (obviously we know he doesn't) he's not actually that far behind & also taking into accoutn straightening & flushing draws too it looks like a decent call to me.

Also, you might want to consider removing the players names from the hand history.

FlutNush

Yep, sorry to appear unsympathetic Mattdexter, but I really like untalkative_robert's analysis there.

You're disappointed that someone had dared to call your all-in, with a starting hand that doesn't look as pretty as yours. But by going all-in (at what looks like an early stage in the tournament), you're putting your own tournament life on the line... forget about his. No hand is impenetrable, let alone suited ace/queen.

I see this a lot, and it confuses me. It's almost as if some players don't want to invest any more thought or skill into the game after the hole cards are dealt.

On balance, maybe if you'd proceeded in a more traditional ABC way, you still might have assumed your over cards were good – and still lost all of your chips... but somehow, I doubt it. By using your chips to ask questions, you'd be able to construct an idea of what your opponent might hold; act accordingly, and bail if necessary to find a better spot. A blind shove doesn't give you that luxury.

Finally (as if I haven't rubbed enough salt into your gaping wound already), think of the ratio to risk versus reward: You're risking 2,840 chips, to win a measly 150 if everyone folds. I know there's a Bounty to collect, but you don't need to try and collect them all in one hit (IMO).

Obviously, you were unlucky on this occasion, better luck next time.

If I were you, I'd blame the software though  

FlashFlush

They key to poker is being in control. By shoving all in with 28BB's UTG you have taken away any more moves/decisions you could of done in the future. Say you raise the standard 3 or 4 times raise. You get those 2 callers and see that flop of 6,2,8 you decide to bet out, what do you do now if the player shoves? Simple you fold, you have Ace high, ok you have lost some chips but you are still in the tournament. Personally I dont like any of the play by any player in this hand and it just highlights the bad play you get in bounty hunters

Aski

Whilst I can agree with a lot of the analysis above, I think it should be pointed out that the guy who won, was the first player to call the OP all in, not the third player who held A10 os, thus the player with 9 10 suited wasnt getting odds to actually make the call. Also whether it was bad play or not from the OP, he is asking for opinions on the first call by the guy with 10 9 suited

Again I can agree with the analysis that going all in with 28bb's seems a very strange move, but we don't have any info on how the table has been playing, so can we think of any scenarios where that play may make some sense.

Are the other players so aggressive that any normal raise is just being reraised all in by others.

Maybe the OP has made a couple of semi bluff all in moves previously, and seeing his cards now deems that players will assume he is playing loose, and that AQ suited is a good opportunity to take advantage of his so called loose nature, although if that was the case, then you couldnt complain too much about getting loose calls, as that is what you were hoping for.

However we also have to look at what the guy with 10 9 suited thinks of your all in. I'm ignoring the guy with a10, as he probably thinks ok Ive got an ace, im probably behind as one of the other two players probably has an ace with a higher kicker, but he probably thinks he's getting pot odds, altho if it was me I'd have folded as soon as the first call was made, I may have been tempted to call your initial all in, dependant  upon my reads from the table.

So what does the guy with 10 9 suited put you on. An all in bet  utg doesnt suggest a big hand, given the size of the stacks. A premium or big hand would be making normal raise in the hope of getting a caller and getting his opponents chips through the streets. So he's probably thinking you havent got a premium pair, nor a large ace (altho his thinking in this case was wrong). So what else would he think you could make that move with. A small pocket pair, more likely , altho again in the situation with stack sizes I would have expected a more othodox play play of either a call hoping to flop a set or a 5 6 x BB raise hoping to get everyone else to fold.

In al honesty given the amount in the middle to win, I'd be struggling to put you on a hand that would make that move, except for a total bluff. You then need to ask what image do the other players have of you.

As someone who likes to play 10 9 I would struggle to make the same call against someone who I considered a more othodox or tight player, but against a player who's game I think I know very well, and who I also consider to be loose, then I could and have made a similar play before, knowing that I have a good chance of being ahead, or at least not very far behind.

Looking at the hand in isolation I dont like the call from either player, nor do I like your initial al in move, mainly as I have no idea why you made it. This is why I think there has to be a lot more information that hasnt been provided that made you make such a move, and that same information would probably also give you the answer on why you were called by both players.

Hands like this happen normally for two reasons. Previous table play is one or someone totally new to the game thinks he is holding a good hand. However with just the one hand to view, the only people who can really comment upon the opponents play are those who were at the table themselves for a good number of hands, including yourself.

Aski

LadyFingrs

lol, ok shoving is bad for obvious reasons, but silent bob you can run % against the exact hands and say how good a call it was, thats just another form of being results orientated.

Plug in some realistic ranges and see what kind of numbers you get.

silentbob

In Response to Re: Its the call not the out draw that annoyed me:

lol, ok shoving is bad for obvious reasons, but silent bob you can run % against the exact hands and say how good a call it was, thats just another form of being results orientated. Plug in some realistic ranges and see what kind of numbers you get.
Posted by LadyFingrs

Well I apologise for my thinking not being on the same level as yours. Obviously this is why I always have & probably always will play micro stakes. I gave an opinion on what I saw in front of me.

In hindsight, as Aski pointed out, I realise I've actually misread the hand & thought the 10 9 was the last caller not the first.

This is why I'm reluctant to post my opinions on here because of one or two that are always quick to shoot people down rather than explain properly what was wrong with their thinking & analysis.

LadyFingrs

what?

I honestly can't see what was insulting about that...

Honestly am sorry if you felt hurt by it or w/e, was def not my intention as you seem a decent bloke.

silentbob

In Response to Re: Its the call not the out draw that annoyed me:

what? I honestly can't see what was insulting about that... Honestly am sorry if you felt hurt by it or w/e, was def not my intention as you seem a decent bloke.
Posted by LadyFingrs

Sorry about that, I completley misconstrued what was being said. I've PM'd you.