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HUDs
OK, so I've recently got a new laptop which means I can now download software and play other sites apart from Sky. Then I remembered one of the reason I've only ever really played on sky and it's so called no HUD policy.
However, a quick google search and I was able to find something called SkyHUD...no idea how legit it is and if it works or not. I did notice a REG actually posted a reply on there too (although I don't think I've come across them in a while)
I was also reading a thread on 2+2 regarding HUD's. One person said: "But you realize that sites and regulators have no ability to ban HUDs, don't you?
I'm a software engineer, as soon as your poker software makes a hand history available to a player, I can write software that will run on any operating system to stuff the hand in a database and display statistics from that database on screen."
However, a quick google search and I was able to find something called SkyHUD...no idea how legit it is and if it works or not. I did notice a REG actually posted a reply on there too (although I don't think I've come across them in a while)
I was also reading a thread on 2+2 regarding HUD's. One person said: "But you realize that sites and regulators have no ability to ban HUDs, don't you?
I'm a software engineer, as soon as your poker software makes a hand history available to a player, I can write software that will run on any operating system to stuff the hand in a database and display statistics from that database on screen."
I can't imagine the Sky software is so advanced as to make it completely impossible to code a HUD... so is it just that they're banned and anyone found using them is deemed cheating? But then this guy also claimed that he could create one that was undetectable easily enough.
Also, why is it that Sky rightly don't allow HUD's yet mention it on 2+2 or to any poker player that relies on a HUD every day and it's slammed down as completely ridiculous to ban HUD's?
Sorry for the rambled post/rant!! Just hoping someone could shed some light on this!! No doubt Sky won't be able to comment though on any procedures they use to detect HUD's... so guess we just got to trust them that they can detect any HUD use and ban any person using it.
Also, why is it that Sky rightly don't allow HUD's yet mention it on 2+2 or to any poker player that relies on a HUD every day and it's slammed down as completely ridiculous to ban HUD's?
Sorry for the rambled post/rant!! Just hoping someone could shed some light on this!! No doubt Sky won't be able to comment though on any procedures they use to detect HUD's... so guess we just got to trust them that they can detect any HUD use and ban any person using it.
Comments
The problem with googling, is that you sometimes get linked to very old articles.
The matter you referred to was, if memory serves correct, at least 3 or 4 years ago.
A chap did design a HUD for use on Sky Poker, & rather ambitiously named it "Sky HUD" or somesuch, & advertised it for sale on 2+2 & elsewhere, which was probably a tad unwise of him.
It was detected quite quickly, and then a software change was immediately implemented which rendered it, & any similar device, inoperative.
"....But you realize that sites and regulators have no ability to ban HUDs, don't you? I'm a software engineer, as soon as your poker software makes a hand history available to a player, I can write software that will run on any operating system to stuff the hand in a database and display statistics from that database on screen......"
He is wrong. It is quite straightforward to make a HUD inoperative to all intents & purposes, & any Poker Site has the ability & perfect right so to do. It's quite simple to stop, any site that wished to ban them could do so very quickly.
"...can't imagine the Sky software is so advanced as to make it completely impossible to code a HUD... so is it just that they're banned and anyone found using them is deemed cheating? But then this guy also claimed that he could create one that was undetectable easily enough......"
It's not impossible to write software to code a HUD for Sky Poker, not at all, but it's (now) impossible to write HUD software that will WORK on Sky Poker. Any such software would now be detected immediately, & would not function, detected or not.
"....Also, why is it that Sky rightly don't allow HUD's yet mention it on 2+2 or to any poker player that relies on a HUD every day and it's slammed down as completely ridiculous to ban HUD's?...."
That is a very hard debate to have on any poker Forum, as it is usually met with a hail of abuse & derision by a certain faction of the Poker Community - the "regs" who are long term winners. They rely on HUD's to give them a built in advantage over recreationals who do not use them, so the regs get a little uppity when the matter is debated. Bizarrely, they usually claim that HUD's give them no advantage, which is a somewhat eccentric piece of logic.
It does not really matter what anyone thinks or says though, as to the advantages or not of HUD's. Sky Poker are firmly committed to NEVER allowing them as far as I know, & I don't imagine that stance is ever likely to change in the foreseeable future.
So they may well be fair & reasonable, or not, thats a matter of opinion, but Sky Poker won't be allowing them.
I think I downloaded a free trial once (a long time ago) but couldn't for the life of me figure out how to work it out. So yeah, I figure I'm going to have the same problem if I try it again.
Lots of combined reasons really though. For one, I HATE clutter. I love the classic skypoker view where you see the cards, the stack amounts and that's it. Watching vids where people use HUDs and see all these numbers floating around and it just would drive me crazy!
Also I think I'm so far behind knowledge wise having never used a HUD and I just lack motivation to try and learn all there is to know about it!
I mean I'm a numbers person so yeah, maybe a HUD would suit me to some degree. I dunno. But yeah, I just prefer no HUD but feel I'd be at a disadvantage playing w/o one on the "big" sites where player pools are much larger. OFC on smaller sites I'm happier to play w/o a HUD even if others are because it's easier to remember players more and go off your notes/memory.
I mean I can see why HUD's were introduced especially on the big sites - player pools being so large it was mostly like playing anon poker - sure, maybe after a few months grinding you recognize a few players at your limits but in another few months they might be gone - moved up/down stakes or just moved their volume elsewhere. So HUD's were a clever way to add that skill aspect back to the game (to a degree) - although the fact it does all the work for you and to a more accurate degree could be too much help!
HUD's will prob never be banned. They're a bit like the laws on guns in America - short sighted to introduce them in the first place and now they've been going for so long it would cause too many problems to get rid of them just like that!
However, changes could be implemented to make them better. 2 ideas:
1) HUD's can only collect stats from other HUD users. That way you're at no disadvantage if you don't use a HUD.
The first one I think would be great for the game of poker. Recreationals should lose their money at a slower rate. That can only be good for the liquidity of online poker!
@ Tikay: Thanks for your reply too, much appreciated
I just massively disagree with the bolded bit. What kind of stats are you going to get from a rec player? It will be such a small sample size you wont be able to tell much.
Lots seems to be discussed about HUDs and its made out to be this scary thing to rec players when its main use is regs v regs where you can have a decent sample size to get data from.
Not sure about your motivation about banning HUDs, seems like just because you lack the motivation to learn how to use a HUD means they should be banned?
respectfully that isnt even close to being true.
i guy i regularly play in HUSNGs has the following stats in the BB 21-25bb deep.
v a min raise he folds 50%, 3bet jams 25% and non-all-in 3bts 25% - never calls
v a limp he raises 60%
he folds v a cbet in a limped pot 75%
whats your small-blind strat and why. all the info is there...
But if they don't simplify the game for some players, why would they be desired by many? It would be odd for players to request something that complicates their game.
but if your response to that information is poor then you would be better off not having it.
you still have to formulate responses and strategy, but you have a more concrete and solid idea of your opponents strategy on which to base those responses and strategies.
but having the numbers doesnt make those adjustments / strategy immediately obvious without thought.
Sure, it might take a little longer to get a good sample size but even just 200 hands can give you a good idea of how to play against them. Plus, it massively helps when it comes to table selecting. I wouldn't know billy from john on a site with a v large player pool but with a HUD you can quickly identify who the regs are and who the fishy players are - even a sample size of 50 showing a players VPIP of 40-80 can lead you to chooising correct tables. Meanwhile I'd have to be plucking completely in the dark every time I go to the lobby. Obv seating scripts makes that 100x worse but that's another problem (and at least being addressed somewhat)
Is it unfair for me to suggest to ban them just because I lack motivation to learn to use them? I dunno haha. Maybe. It's not the sole reason - I think the game is better w/o them. But obv everyone that uses them just can't imagine poker without HUD's - like I said in my analogy before it's just like American's can't imagine living without a gun to protect them. Whereas most people here would just say there is no need for a gun whatsoever.
Like I said I realise it's pretty absurd to want to ban them now. Thing is surely there's a few reg players like me that want to play w/o a HUD but don't because over time as stats are collected on them they'll be at a disadvantage.
Curious as to your reasons why you don't use a HUD then Matt? Even just being able to see VPIP and fold to 3bet would surely help you in tournaments for mid-late tourney?
if someone is a rec, we already expecting them to have high VPIP (volenteer to put money in put, in other words limp or call) and low PFR (pre flop raise), therefore it's not really going to make any different weather we have HUD or not.
regs on the other hand can be tight passive, tight aggressive, ABC or some other form, so HUDs tells us just how aggressive they are pre and post flop and also how much of a range they likely to have in each pos.