'Cashout' in poker tournaments

Sky_Poker

Hi 

An interesting hypothetical scenario to discuss...

Something that is very popular in the world of sports betting is 'cashout' where you collect your bet early (for a lower amount than you might otherwise win) for a guaranteed amount no matter what the last result is.

So for an example for those not familiar with it...

You have a 5 team accumulator running on to a later game and stand to win £250. Your last team is 1-0 up and odds-on to win with 10mins left but you think you'd rather take £200 now in case there's a late equaliser. So you cashout and take the money then. Even if the other team do come back, you still collect.

So, do you ever think you wish you could do that in a poker tournament?

For the purposes of this discussion, let's assume this is not a 'deal' situation - i.e. all the players dont have to agree (say it's a tournament where that option is clear to all before entering), you can do it if you want, say during a synch-break.

Let's say you were chip leader in a big online game you satellited in for a few pounds, you have run well and half the chips in play on the final table. Imagine there's £5k for first but ICM says your chips are worth £3k (equivalent to finishing 2nd). Would you like the option to 'take' that assuming you could?

We can thing of various pros and cons to this as well as some rules that would need establishing but what do you think the ups and downs of this might be?

Thanks

Sky Poker

unknown_username

A new and unfamiliar concept. To me it'd be another poker 'innovation' that seems like a great idea on paper, is popular for a few months and then flops. I'd love to see the introduction of a 'deal' button, so the option is at least there, before considering off-the-wall innovations.

Sky_Poker

In Response to Re: 'Cashout' in poker tournaments:

A new and unfamiliar concept. To me it'd be another poker 'innovation' that seems like a great idea on paper, is popular for a few months and then flops. I'd love to see the introduction of a 'deal' button, so the option is at least there, before considering off-the-wall innovations.
Posted by patwalshh

Ha, it's not necessarily something we're planning on doing.

It was sparked by a discussion about doing it on bets and the pros and cons of that. Then we said, would you like to do the same in poker?

It's an interesting one to debate, we came up with pros and cons but thought it would be interesting to discuss on here.

MattBates

It would add a whole new dynamic to the game as currently you may make some edge passes as it doesn't matter if a lesser player gets a stack, through some non optimal play shall we call it, as you will "get them eventually" however if they may effectively leave with them chips it changes the goal posts. Good experienced MTT players wouldn't like the idea as it negates a key part of their game which is end game.

GaryQQQ

Would never work. These tournaments would we ruined by nits who don't have the bottle to play for first 'booking the win' by cashing out for a small profit. Completely impractical.

MAXALLY

If I was on a FT with Tommy/batesy/geldy/solly & Irish Rose.....had a 20:1 chip lead over everyone else.....I would still cash out!! Read into that what you will.

aussie09

In Response to Re: 'Cashout' in poker tournaments:

Would never work. These tournaments would we ruined by nits who don't have the bottle to play for first 'booking the win' by cashing out for a small profit. Completely impractical.
Posted by GaryQQQ

yes, i see that this could happen.  funny enough, the opposite could happen too. 

it is all dependant upon the cash out formula.  if the cash out value is higher than chance then the effect will be to flatten the payout structure.  if the cash out value is lower than chance then the outcome will be a amplification of payouts for the winners at the top end. 

the cash out algorithm would "shape" the payouts.

the existing mechanism that achieves this is the formula that determines who cashes and the amount.  this could be tweaked if we wanted to change the shape of the payouts.  a cash out option could do the same.

i would be happy with a cash out that offers a value less than chance  that way, the lambs who are fearful or who do not hold their nerve will take out less than they should from the pot.  leaving the remainder to be shared amongst the lions.

but there again, i don't really care enough to post.... i shall cease now.

aussie09

i will add that if there is any sort of fee taken by the site from the pot then definitely no.

the cash out option now being offered for football betting etc is a simple money making mechanism for the bookie that takes value away from the wee lambs.  it gives another opportunity to engage the punter in a transaction where the odds are in the bookie's favour.




 

shakinaces

Would this potentially create a situation where a number of early chipleaders 'book the win' and then the remaining players would be left with a prize pool so decimated that they could potentially win the event and still 'book a loss'?

I have commented in-play before that this idea would be great (after I've handed out a couple of bad beats and find myself chip leader), knowing that I'm still an underdog/unlikely to cash, but the reality is that I don't think the idea would be feasible.

I'm sure it's another idea that will be trialled somewhere in the poker world though... and as (on the face of it) it looks to favour recs /> regs then maybe it has legs?

jordz16

It would be interesting... the only way id ever like to see it implemented would be if the money offered was far less than the value of the chipstack... as im sure all cash out options never offer the true odds of what the bet is currently worth...  so if people cashed out for less then their stack is worth then that is only going to make the remaining prizepool more valuable which would be a good thing... and would their chips just disappear? or be spread evenly with those who remain? or be spread in relation to other current stack sizes? I think it could work, but it would need a lot of proper planning and understanding first... maybe it would be a good thing, but i think we need a deal option first as that would at least be a step in the right direction

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: 'Cashout' in poker tournaments:

Would this potentially create a situation where a number of early chipleaders 'book the win' and then the remaining players would be left with a prize pool so decimated that they could potentially win the event and still 'book a loss'? I have commented in-play before that this idea would be great (after I've handed out a couple of bad beats and find myself chip leader), knowing that I'm still an underdog/unlikely to cash, but the reality is that I don't think the idea would be feasible. I'm sure it's another idea that will be trialled somewhere in the poker world though... and as (on the face of it) it looks to favour recs /> regs then maybe it has legs?
Posted by shakinaces

Full Tilt used to offer cashout tournaments well before black Friday. 

They don't anymore. 

hhyftrftdr

Cash out is very popular amongst sports betting these days. It's a shame when a certain betting site goes down at 4.30 on a Saturday, thus meaning people who might have wanted to cash out a winning acca and save the sweat, now have to let it ride, eh Sky Poker

F_Ivanovic

In Response to Re: 'Cashout' in poker tournaments:

It would be interesting... the only way id ever like to see it implemented would be if the money offered was far less than the value of the chipstack... as im sure all cash out options never offer the true odds of what the bet is currently worth...  so if people cashed out for less then their stack is worth then that is only going to make the remaining prizepool more valuable which would be a good thing... and would their chips just disappear? or be spread evenly with those who remain? or be spread in relation to other current stack sizes? I think it could  work, but it would need a lot of proper planning and understanding first... maybe it would be a good thing, but i think we need a deal option first as that would at least be a step in the right direction
Posted by jordz16

Good point. If their chips just vanish, then this will affect the structure of the tournament and dynamics of tables of people where someone has cashed out. 

I can see some benefits of a cashout system tho - suppose you were playing in a poker tournament and doing quite well. But then you had a real life 'emeregency' that meant you just had to leave the tournament. It would be nice to be able to cash out, even if it was only 1/2 the value of what your chip stack actually was. 

If the value of cashout is significantly less than the value of your chip stack, this would avoid people cashing out except in such circumstances.