Hovering at just above break even - how to kick on?

redsy22

Hello. This is my first time posting (apologies for the rambling nature and i ive posted in the wrong place.)

Preamble – I have been playing for about 3.5 years. Took around 3 (and probably a good few hundred pounds) to get the point where I was consistently beating my friends and smaller tournaments near where I live, but more often than not was frittering away whatever I reinvested online. Therefore around 5 months ago I started trying to take things a bit more seriously, did some research etc.

Typically I play around 2/3 nights a week and an afternoon at the weekend. Mostly a mix of 5/10p, 10/20p, cash and £5, £11 sng (all six handed and on sky). However, despite averaging a very small profit, I cannot ever seem to kick on. The first few months of my more serious attempts were exactly break even and over the last month / 6 weeks I have at no point been more than +£175 and at no point below +£50 with the amount in my account currently being circa £110 more than I have deposited. All this seems bizarrely consistent to me; even though the stakes aren’t that high I would have expected variance to player a bigger toll one way or another! I have started eliminating the 5/10p and £5 games as I’m getting bored playing at that level but appear to be yielding exactly the same results at the higher level with the added slight increase in winnings (and clearly i mean slight.)

I am not aware of any leaks – otherwise I wouldn’t make them. However, there are clearly many!!

1) Are there any obvious spots the break even or just above break even players virtually always need to improve on?!

2) Also anyone who recognises they may have played against me…  Anything you’ve noticed I do that could be costing me? (I don’t know why you’d say, but it would be really nice and I promise to return the favour!)

 

3) What is a realistic expectation at this level? Am I just expecting too much in a short time frame?

4) A luxury bonus question for anyone still reading – what % of people do actually make a profit (any kind) vs those who don’t?

 

 

BigBluster

I don't know you, but from how you've described your symptoms if I were a doctor I'd diagnose table selection. Clearly, if the whole table is equally matched then eventually they will all go broke as 5% of each pot gets raked. They're effectively swapping money around and paying vigorish for the privilege.

If you're sitting at a table with even 3 or 4 other regs, you will probably lose money: there just isn't enough spare change from the one or two recreational players (who might win as well!) to cover the entire table rake and deliver profits for all 4 of you.

But you can't just play exclusively with less experienced players - you will inevitably have to sit down with some regular grinders. Notice how often the regulars play big pots against each other: not very often. There's just no merit in swapping money around!

PS: you're not a break even player, you're a winning player. You're beating that rake! Unfortunately, you're in effect playing for the site and not playing for yourself. This isn't as negative as it may seem - the site host the games, bring the people together and provide free recreation for you.

PPS: No-one actually knows what % of people make a profit but the standard estimate is that about 5% of players make money.

CraigSG1

Hi, everyone has leaks! Everyone. And a lot of the time they are the same things, just some people dont leak as much as others in some area or another.

The biggest things that cost, and make, you money are the small things. Playing hands out of position can cost you a lot, playing weak hands passively or saying things to yourself like, "i have pot odds so will call" can cost you more in the long run than the times when you do win a big pot. 

Try to concentrate on playing hands in position, be aware of the types of players you are playing against (do they 3 bet a lot or call a lot?) as these will help you decide if and how to play a hand.

I can spend hours going over all this but I would just start with a couple of things, work on them and then look for other areas and work on them. It stops you cluttering your mind and playing away from your game.

I will take a guess and say the first thing to work on will be playing small pairs/suited connectors as one of your big leaks. A few rules to think over, try and play them in position as you then dont have to rely on hitting your hand to win a pot, you can bluff/semi-bluff people off pots. Dont limp in early position and raising them isnt great either on most tables unless you have solid reads on everyone. Too many times you will either get raised off or lots of callers and be playing first to act with no clue where you or any one else is in the hand.

Kadoom

In Response to Hovering at just above break even - how to kick on?:

Hello. This is my first time posting (apologies for the rambling nature and i ive posted in the wrong place.) Preamble – I have been playing for about 3.5 years. Took around 3 (and probably a good few hundred pounds) to get the point where I was consistently beating my friends and smaller tournaments near where I live, but more often than not was frittering away whatever I reinvested online. Therefore around 5 months ago I started trying to take things a bit more seriously, did some research etc. Typically I play around 2/3 nights a week and an afternoon at the weekend. Mostly a mix of 5/10p, 10/20p, cash and £5, £11 sng (all six handed and on sky). However, despite averaging a very small profit, I cannot ever seem to kick on. The first few months of my more serious attempts were exactly break even and over the last month / 6 weeks I have at no point been more than +£175 and at no point below +£50 with the amount in my account currently being circa £110 more than I have deposited. All this seems bizarrely consistent to me; even though the stakes aren’t that high I would have expected variance to player a bigger toll one way or another! I have started eliminating the 5/10p and £5 games as I’m getting bored playing at that level but appear to be yielding exactly the same results at the higher level with the added slight increase in winnings (and clearly i mean slight.) I am not aware of any leaks – otherwise I wouldn’t make them. However, there are clearly many!! 1) Are there any obvious spots the break even or just above break even players virtually always need to improve on?! 2) Also anyone who recognises they may have played against me…  Anything you’ve noticed I do that could be costing me? (I don’t know why you’d say, but it would be really nice and I promise to return the favour!)   3) What is a realistic expectation at this level? Am I just expecting too much in a short time frame? 4) A luxury bonus question for anyone still reading – what % of people do actually make a profit (any kind) vs those who don’t?    
Posted by redsy22

Howdy redsy ive lost n won,aint the best n aint the worst,played some blinders n played some shambles,played against some truly world class players,john connor,matt237,richorford,would love to play tikay10, i'm in negative equity but still love it n Sky is the number 1 for me,i'll be a poker millionaire this time next year.

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: Hovering at just above break even - how to kick on?:

In Response to Hovering at just above break even - how to kick on? : Howdy redsy ive lost n won,aint the best n aint the worst,played some blinders n played some shambles,played against some truly world class players,john connor,matt237,richorford,would love to play tikay10, i'm in negative equity but still love it n Sky is the number 1 for me,i'll be a poker millionaire this time next year.
Posted by Kadoom

Someone has had a few too many tonight.

Matt237

In Response to Re: Hovering at just above break even - how to kick on?:

In Response to Re: Hovering at just above break even - how to kick on? : Someone has had a few too many tonight.
Posted by hhyftrftdr

Someone is a bit jealous ;-)

mrsduck

ROFL!!

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: Hovering at just above break even - how to kick on?:

In Response to Re: Hovering at just above break even - how to kick on? : Someone is a bit jealous ;-)
Posted by Matt237

Yep, well jel (or whatever you kids say these days)

Oh Matt, looking forward to trying to qualify for Viva Las Vegas?

Silly me, I forget you're still a child. Maybe in a couple years eh